My dc are dirty - abnormally so

[whhhhhyy]

I have name- changed for obvious reasons.

They are boys aged 8 & 10 and the following behaviours are driving me to despair:

1. They keep leaving the toilet in a foul state. Time and again I go in and it’s not been flushed, no wiping has happened and presumably hands not washed. Twice in the last weeks I have had to bin pants of ds2 due to not wiping and, I suspect, partially messing in his pants due to not going till the last fucking minute. He also wet himself the other week. Constantly denies needing it then does an absolute torrent and insists he ‘just started needing it’. I have read the riot act countless times but he carries on regardless. DS1 is dirty but at least goes when he needs to. This is new behaviour from ds2.
2. I am a lp and have an en suite so they are the only ones using the main bathroom and I realised a few weeks ago that no soap, shampoo or shower gel had been used for a few weeks.
3. Ds2 constantly puts his fingers in his food and basically is a very messy eater. As soon as the plate goes down in front of him it’s like a reflex – in goes his finger. Food all over the floor after eating as well. I’m constantly embarrassed picking him up from school with food all over him. We eat at the table all together regularly and have done all his life so why his manners are so appalling I have no idea. Both hold their cutlery ridiculously and I’m starting to dread mealtimes as I find myself barking orders which I know is wrong and I sound like a right cow.

What do I do? I know the first issue is the worst one and it just makes me so angry. My usual reaction to anything they do wrong is to inwardly blame my ex, but I can’t imagine he would be best pleased by the toilet stuff so I just don’t know. They have both become quite clingy to me and each other over the last few months (maybe divorce related, though ex moved out 3 years ago) too so I don’t know whether that is a factor or they are just lazy.

It’s not normal though is it?

((((((Hugs))))

You might have to go back a step,with the younger one - reminders to go, checking lavatory afterwards and making him go through proper hygiene routine. I think it's far more common than you think and plenty of adults don't wash their hands or lavatory clean. Little children are impulsive and rush things. You need to go,back,to,supervision to,slow him down. Threatening the older one with the same might do the trick.

Check after bath that they actually smell of soap/shampoo etc. Check they've brushed their teeth until they can do it routinely.

Foodwise if he puts his hands in, take his food away from him but it might be easier to make sure he's holding his knife and fork before you dish up. Little people's cutlery might still be easier for him to manage. At eight they do still find some foods difficult to cope with so give a degree of slack when their eating spaghetti.

((((((((((((Big Hugs))))))

I have an 8 yr old DS. He wipes and washes his hands after going to the loo but never flushes, I don't think it's that unusual for an 8 yr old. I just make him come back and flush it when I realise. He also still eats with his hands given half a chance, so I just repeat "use your knife and fork" "use your knife and fork" "use your knife and fork" etc etc. And occasionally "why on earth can't you use your knife and fork, you look like a baby eating with your fingers". I'm told he uses his cutlery perfectly at school.

Ah second ridiculous comment I've read today from lobster

OP- it's normal in as much as some kids just can't be bothered with doing the basics as they have other things on their minds- mates,telly,Xbox etc.

Tell them that from now on you will be checking the bathroom every evening and if it's not left nicely there will be consequences. Put a note above the loo to remind them!

Manners- just gently remind.

OP, we went on holidays once and my dds had a bathroom to themselves. They were older than your boys. Imagine my horror when on day 3 I went in and discovered the handsoap was unopened! I read them the riot act.

I think you need to go back to basics with both of them. For your 8 year old, I would sit him down and tell him very seriously that this has got to stop now as he cannot grow up with crap on his pants. Then I think you will have to police them for a few weeks - make your 8 year old go to the toilet regularly. If he has an accident/pants you have to throw out, make a consequence for him. (Obviously if you are certain this is because of laziness/lack of care - not if you think there is something else going on). Follow them to the bathroom and make them show you them washing their hands and flushing the toilet. It is a pain but you have to re-instill the habits in them.

Do a check in the shower as well. Also, I think you can presume neither of them are brushing their teeth so make that a public activity too.

Do a bathroom check every evening and make reading in bed or whatever dependent on passing the bathroom check.

Put notices above the sink and on the door "Have you washed your hands and flushed the toilet".

For meals, put his dinner in front of him and say "hands on your lap" as you do. Then tell him to use his fork. You just have to repeat repeat repeat until it sticks.

Do they hang out with their father? What are his manners/hygiene habits like?

good luck. oh and ignore lobster's spectacularly unhelpful contribution.

My almost ten year old hardly ever flushes drives me mad. Leaves lights on everywhere too.
Try writing a checklist and put it up in the bathroom?

Would it help to let them each choose their "own" (cheap) nice-smelling shower gel etc? So that they actually want to use it?

Does little one have pants he likes? With characters on or whatever?

If not, take him to buy some Paw Patrol or Frozen or Octonauts pants, whatever he's into. And tell him that if he gets poo in these pants, his favourite pants, they'll go in the bin.

Similar with shampoo but at 8 you probably should be checking their bathroom regularly. 10 there's no excuse, he's going to secondary next year or the year after and that won't stand. This really needs to change now or he'll be the smelly kid, possibly for his whole school life. Don't let him enter puberty without knowing how important his hygiene is.

I think is a bit old to be trying to bribe with character pants? That's more for a 2 or 3 year old!!

He's acting like a 3 year old, so.

Yes but he's 8 so paw patrol pants aren't going to entice him!
Agree with everything else you said!

Well I wash my 9 year old and supervise his tooth brushing

I assume this will end at some stage

They get very 'bummy ' and I will continue to wash them as long as they let me !

I still think they need supervision in the bathroom, at 10 maybe not too closely but with inspections of hands and hair and face after washing - breath smell after teeth and check toothbrush etc.

With regard to toilet, if they make a mess get them to help clean up - if you do it every time they will hate it and maybe learn a) to clean a toilet and b) not to do it. Maybe clean the worst of it and get them back in to wear gloves and put a wipe around and be shown what is an acceptable state to leave it in.

Mine is 12 and perfectly well aware of how to use and not abuse a toilet but is getting forgetful and lazy so every time I call her back and she gets to sort it out. She always knows what i am going to say and does what is needed without me actually telling her so it is just laziness

Just keep on at them even if it feels endless.

As to sticking hands in food if no washing is taking place that is just foul - so hands washed before dinner and nail brush as well - they will have worms otherwise...shudders

Poor you OP. I understand how frustrating and draining it must be for you. I think the answer is just repetition and consistency. Give them clear expectations and consequences. At 8&10 they should be capable of the things you have mentioned but as it obviously isn't working I think you need a change of plan.

DD is almost 8 and rarely remembers to flush the toilet. I make her go back in and do it every single time. I hope the inconvenience to her will eventually make it sink it that she needs to flush after using the toilet.

I also supervise teeth brushing again, I did stop for a while but she's not been doing a good job so I'm back to supervising again.

She is also a bit of a soap dodger. She hates showering and washing her face (she's good at regular hand washing throughout the day though). She argues like crazy when told it's time for a shower but is ok once she gets it.

She would eat with her hands if I let her but I'm pretty strict with table manners. Dinners have been removed and desserts cancelled over bad table manners.

Any refusals of teeth brushing or showering = loss of screen time.

What do I do?

Supervise them!

Oh love, don't worry - you are SO not alone. Mine are scummy given half a chance. I'd start by supervising showers and tooth-brushing, I often wait outside the bathroom until I can hear that it's all happening, and then check afterwards. Making sure they are washing is number 1 priority especially given your first point. Maybe run them a bath once a week (if you have a bath as well as a shower) just to know they are getting into a nice warm bubble bath every so often. Come to think of it I was still bathing and washing my dcs hair when they were 8 I think. And the flushing and hand washing just has to become non-negotiable, although I feel your pain there. (Why is it so hard to flush and why is there sometimes no loo roll... )

They don't have bad intentions, they're just not in the right habits yet. Don't be too hard on them or yourself, it'll all sort itself out. X

You need to teach them, go back to the basics, supervise them, keep doing this all the time and they will improve .

Misses point but

@crumbs Do you have a lavatory brush?

watch a couple army sergeant military type movies and become a tyrant. harp harp harp, nag and nag some more.

My eldest son would always shower and not wash his hair, brush his teeth, forget to wash hands. I was on his back day and night for years, it simply just wasn't important to him. He did outgrow it but it took years. I think my constant nagging was filtered out. It was quite bizarre and absolutely not for the lack of patenting.

OP, I feel your pain! Ds4 constantly leaves the loo in a state and went through a phase of blaming ds3 and I had to do a lot of detective work to figure out that it was him! Now, I nag the culprit to go back in and clean up after himself.

The ridiculous cutlery holding made me wonder about dyspraxia - two of my kids have dyspraxia and we've had some similar difficulties. Could it be a possibility with your kids OP?

Thank you all so much.

I will just have to start supervising more closely and I love the idea of a checklist - will get on that today. It's hard being n my own and there being two of them as if I'm cooking etc I don't always notice them going, but will have to be more vigilant I guess.

One thing they do do is brush teeth. I am paranoid about that and check carefully most days. They also rarely rinse the sink despite being told so the evidence is there too!

Ex was certainly not dirty like this but he does have different standards. Ds1 was getting whiffy in the summer and I got him deodorant and told him he would need to start showering every day not every other day. When he told ex he apparently said the deodorant was 'fine' but showering every day 'ridiculous'. Ex always showered every day .