My dc are dirty - abnormally so

[whhhhhyy]

I have name- changed for obvious reasons.

They are boys aged 8 & 10 and the following behaviours are driving me to despair:

1. They keep leaving the toilet in a foul state. Time and again I go in and it’s not been flushed, no wiping has happened and presumably hands not washed. Twice in the last weeks I have had to bin pants of ds2 due to not wiping and, I suspect, partially messing in his pants due to not going till the last fucking minute. He also wet himself the other week. Constantly denies needing it then does an absolute torrent and insists he ‘just started needing it’. I have read the riot act countless times but he carries on regardless. DS1 is dirty but at least goes when he needs to. This is new behaviour from ds2.
2. I am a lp and have an en suite so they are the only ones using the main bathroom and I realised a few weeks ago that no soap, shampoo or shower gel had been used for a few weeks.
3. Ds2 constantly puts his fingers in his food and basically is a very messy eater. As soon as the plate goes down in front of him it’s like a reflex – in goes his finger. Food all over the floor after eating as well. I’m constantly embarrassed picking him up from school with food all over him. We eat at the table all together regularly and have done all his life so why his manners are so appalling I have no idea. Both hold their cutlery ridiculously and I’m starting to dread mealtimes as I find myself barking orders which I know is wrong and I sound like a right cow.

What do I do? I know the first issue is the worst one and it just makes me so angry. My usual reaction to anything they do wrong is to inwardly blame my ex, but I can’t imagine he would be best pleased by the toilet stuff so I just don’t know. They have both become quite clingy to me and each other over the last few months (maybe divorce related, though ex moved out 3 years ago) too so I don’t know whether that is a factor or they are just lazy.

It’s not normal though is it?

please ignore lobster.
mine are 14, 12 and 9. Thye were all drilled in hygiene from an early age. As they got older they have all been through phases where I had to double check soap, shampoo and hand washing.
Now the oldest is a shower hog (teenagers seem to go one way or the other!) The 12 year old would happily never wash and I have to keep a very close eye.

You need to go back to treating them like toddlers for a while until they get it drilled into them. My ds aged 12 still needs watching like a hawk because otherwise he is a complete slob. He is always rushing on to the next thing and doesn't deem these things important. Establish a routine, stand over them if you have to and if they protest tell them that you will only stop when they do it for themselves.

Loyalty, is the only reason you're on here to upset people. I've yet to see one supportive comment from you on here

i agree with most PP that a goodly amount of nagging is necessary. Check on them often, ask have you brushed.. washed.. ?

As a parent of DS and two DSSS (all of a similar age) we went through all of this.

Frequent sniff tests - checking towels for dampness - nagging, nagging and more nagging.

They are all perfectly lovely smelling teens now. With table manners which are usually up to scratch.

we do stil have a sign up in the downstairs loo though, instructing them to piddle in the middle

I put the fear of God into DD to keep the toilet tidy and always wash her hands etc. by explaining the germs (I think there were even some Youtube videos about serious diseases played), when she was neglectful.
Worked a treat.

You need to supervise much more closely. I wouldn't assume an 8 year old would wash adequately without prompting.

I have the luxury of feeling confidently smug with my little 5yo DS who wipes the toilet after him, puts the seat down AND the lid and washes his hands including using the nail brush. for me.

But, in all seriousness OP, you need to go back to basics. They have to use the toilet and wash their hands before meals, before leaving the house, before getting dressed. Sounds like you need to give them their baths too. It's going to be a PITA obviously, but you need to take this back to grass roots. Hopefully they'll quickly start doing it for themselves.

Maybe google 'thread worms' with them.

Ugh

Back to basics and supervise all washing and teeth/showering until they get it.

I have the luxury of feeling confidently smug with my little 5yo DS who wipes the toilet after him, puts the seat down AND the lid and washes his hands including using the nail brush for me

Yeah,my ds was like that,then it changed over night when he turned 9

I don't know why anyone is recommending nagging. Children don't respond to nagging.

Ignore Lobster - nasty mealy-mouthed piece of work.

What I did until recently was to combine bath time with bathroom cleaning time so I could clean up, chat and supervise a bit.
My two are the same age as yours and while they both love long soaks, they’re not great at hand washing so I’ve had to explain time and time again that a dip in cold water without soap isn’t going to get their hands clean.
One thing that works well for us is having lots of different bubble baths and what not, so that they actively enjoy baths.
DS (10) has recently started to was his own (long) hair and I have to say he’s making a great job of it...now. He was obviously missing some areas, so I suggested washing twice and explained the “squeak test” to make sure all (or at least most) of the grease is gone.

You mentioned that they’re both clingy atm, so hanging out with them in the bathroom might alleviate that a bit.

Notices and nags are unlikely to work. Supervise closely and make not doing it more work than doing it. Don't let it go even once.

Filthy loo must be cleaned without fail, so not flushing will be more work than flushing. Not washing means you go in a watch them do it, more thoroughly than they would otherwise have done it, so this is more work than doing it. Not brushing teeth means you watch them and for 5 minutes, not 3. Again, more trouble not doing it than doing it.

Is your 8 year old constipated? Recently soiling and wetting is a key sign.

My middle kid has this and presents exactly as you describe the 8yo. He is also very sensory aware so has fingers in everything all the time - honestly it’s just him!

The hygiene and cleaning up after themselves you need to be more on them - my eldest is a monkey for avoiding this, I will loiter near the bathroom and if I don’t hear the tap run/do sporadic hand checks after using the bathroom etc. Now they know I will check up they are more with it.

That’s a good call, 1981.

My 8 year old often forgets to flush, needs to be supervised brushing his teeth and likes to eat with his hands too (dubious about his washing them but as long as he's only touching his food...). I know he can use cutlery properly because he does when we're out somewhere. I ask him if he's flushed when he's been to the loo and I'm there to rinse the shampoo out of his hair at shower times. You're not the only one. Did know a child that kept soiling itself because it was too "busy" to go to the toilet. It's mother made it wash it's own pants. Eventually that stopped too.

Sometimes when it comes to subjects like this, you have to be cruel to be kind, those who think I’m being “nasty” are obviously those who have poor hygiene themselves.

And I’m not here to upset people either, I will offer support and advice when it is relevant.

If S2's pants are dirty I'd make him wash them out in the sink. Yes, it's disgusting but they need to learn consequences, not just assume you will clean up after them. Same for if he wets himself again. Make him be the one to clean whatever he dirties. I'd also put cleaning of the toilet on their list of chores. Buy Method toilet cleaner which isn't too toxic and supervise.

Ds2 not going to the toilet, this happend with one of my ds, took him to the GP who send him to the pediactritic consultant and it turned out he was constipated and this was the reason he needed to suddenly go, he wasn't pooing properly and he didn't know, he took some laxitives for a while and it fixed itself.

The wiping and flushing and messy food will fix its self with some supervision and, if they leave a mess in the bathroom and the kitchen make them clean it especaily after dinner, dont let them leave food on the floor, while you watch them so they get the point, they need to be more able to be tidy this will teach them to think before they act hopefully.

Can I recommend reading how to talk so children will listen. One of the strategies from there that works well with ds is giving him information and leaving him to work out what to do. So I say I didnt hear the toilet flush and he rushes back to do it. I also smell his hands to check he used soap.

Well it's nice to be able to conclude from this thread that this is a common problem. I have one little soap-dodger (6), and one who only dodges a bit (4). I was feeling a bit exasperated with my eldest as he also has pooed and wet himself more than I accepted for his age (not at all the 4yo). But clearly these things go on years and thanks to the Op for raising it.

Do they have any special needs. My 10 year old DS is like this and is autistic and dyspraxic. Could you get a referral to a paediatrician or occupational therapist to find out?

Might be best to share the bathroom with them, instead of sticking to your en-suite, OP. That way you can keep a closer eye on them.

Sometimes when it comes to subjects like this, you have to be cruel to be kind, those who think I’m being “nasty” are obviously those who have poor hygiene themselves.

yep, I haven't showered in weeks and I never wash my hands after going to the loo.

Softly softly does not work with boys, and definatly not teenagers never.