My dc are dirty - abnormally so

[whhhhhyy]

I have name- changed for obvious reasons.

They are boys aged 8 & 10 and the following behaviours are driving me to despair:

1. They keep leaving the toilet in a foul state. Time and again I go in and it’s not been flushed, no wiping has happened and presumably hands not washed. Twice in the last weeks I have had to bin pants of ds2 due to not wiping and, I suspect, partially messing in his pants due to not going till the last fucking minute. He also wet himself the other week. Constantly denies needing it then does an absolute torrent and insists he ‘just started needing it’. I have read the riot act countless times but he carries on regardless. DS1 is dirty but at least goes when he needs to. This is new behaviour from ds2.
2. I am a lp and have an en suite so they are the only ones using the main bathroom and I realised a few weeks ago that no soap, shampoo or shower gel had been used for a few weeks.
3. Ds2 constantly puts his fingers in his food and basically is a very messy eater. As soon as the plate goes down in front of him it’s like a reflex – in goes his finger. Food all over the floor after eating as well. I’m constantly embarrassed picking him up from school with food all over him. We eat at the table all together regularly and have done all his life so why his manners are so appalling I have no idea. Both hold their cutlery ridiculously and I’m starting to dread mealtimes as I find myself barking orders which I know is wrong and I sound like a right cow.

What do I do? I know the first issue is the worst one and it just makes me so angry. My usual reaction to anything they do wrong is to inwardly blame my ex, but I can’t imagine he would be best pleased by the toilet stuff so I just don’t know. They have both become quite clingy to me and each other over the last few months (maybe divorce related, though ex moved out 3 years ago) too so I don’t know whether that is a factor or they are just lazy.

It’s not normal though is it?

Hard work but just implement some supervision routines.

Supervise them washing hands properly brfore meals.

Try not to do it all via a nagathon.

Have a little session on how to hold cutlery properly and then once a week have a good manners competition between you all at dinner. Get them to score you, too!
Make a score sheet, covering eating nicely with cutlery, keeping all good in plate, offering things to other people, etc. Get them to contribute categories. Have fun prizes.

Find some scientific info, as disgusting as possible, about skin mites etc that live on you if you don't use shampoo and shower gel. (This aspect might be less scientific, but hey...)

Back to basics. Wiki how style check lists should help, and also reasoning why we should have personal hygiene.

Mine are young teens and I STILL have to prompt the lazy feckers. I implemented a sniff test on the eldest after it transpired that he wasn't using shampoo.
They rarely flush but always do for number 2's so thats ok (ish) I have also blown my top if the loo hasn't been left clean so they will clean it.
To a PP who mentioned something about leading by example... if that were the case they would be spotless because I keep myself and my home nice.

When you are a really really busy parent, and have been distracted by the emotional upset of a divorce and the need to look after yourself and support the children emotionally, it's is easy to drop the odd ball.

Don't panic, just go back to parenting 101 as pps have suggested. You taught them all this first time around, they've just stopped bothering. They'll get back on it pretty fast. Never stop with the occasional checks though!

If it's any comfort, I was pegging washing on the line a few years ago... DS1, 2, 3 size pants- 6 pairs each. DH and Me- 6 pairs each. DD- 1 pair.

We had a little chat about that, and I got into the habit of counting washing! Also, sniffing hands for soap and admiring the lovely clean teeth, soft shiny hair, sweet smelling hands etc.
You don't have to be a mean nag about it, you can do it lightheartedly which is nicer for you, too!

@DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen - Ridiculous? what I said is the truth, children take after their parents.

Loyalty - not always. My dd almost 7 has to be told to brush her teeth every single morning and every single night despite me doing mine at the same time of morning because she's a child! I also have to tell her to wash her hands after the toilet when she comes in from playing the garden etc because she's a child. I agree ops children are older than mine but they get in the habit when they're younger like 2,3,4 because it's "fun" then they grow a bit and it no longer a fun thing to do. My 20 month old loves tidying her toys away after bath on a night. I doubt that will last long.

Soap and shampoo had not been used in weeks? They are 8 and ten so if they don't wash themselves you need to wash them!

Lobster that is so not true and just plain nasty.
I have 4 kids. Luckily personal hygiene is good but with regards to their surroundings 2 would happily live in a pigsty whilst 2 are pristine to the point I have worried that 1 may have OCD traits. That blows that theory out of the water.
With regards to hand washing, that turns my stomach (with my own kids not judging yours)- I make them all go and wash their hands before meals (I stand and ask) even though the oldest 3 are young adults.
Op I think others have given good advise. Routine and repetition are the key. Hopefully the message will get through. How about some sort of bubble bath too so at least they are getting cleaned even if they don't touch soap/shampoo.

"Ridiculous? what I said is the truth, children take after their parents."

I bet the OP has used shampoo in the last 8 weeks, AND wipes her backside!

@hannah1992 - Your DD is 7 she shouldn’t have to be prompted to wash her hands and clean her teeth. My DS has only just turned 6 and I never have to ask him “have you washed your hands - have you cleaned your teeth” as I drummed it into him from a young age, he actually spends a little too much time doing those things but I wouldn’t have it any other way, child with poor hygiene will grow to be adults with poor hygiene and that will not get them very far in the world. I have read threads on where people have “smelly” colleagues at work

Just keep repeating the rules...and assist with teeth brushing and handwashing until it sinks in. It'll be repetitive for you but with persistence, it will sink in.

My two DSs were taught manners from day one and yet have done all of the things you describe at one time or another.

Have them help you clean the toilet to demonstrate what a pain in the arse it truly is!

Try not to shame them, to them it's just not a priority in their impulsive brains that are always flitting between Lego, food, TV or games whatever.

Be calm, be firm, these things are non-negotiable, be kind but be 100% committed to this...it's for their own good.

lobster stop being so pious.
Glad your child is perfect! I'm glad mine aren't as I might turn into a smug cunt and I'd hate to be one of those

One of mine picked their nose and wiped it everywhere

Fucking disgusting

And no nothing like their parents lobster

Although i will admit that i dont really understand why they havent been supervised in the shower til noe

But im sure the OP has a handle on this now

I would say that soap dodging is quite usual in children.

Her child isn't perfect, and neither is she. But she is trying to make the op feel bad to make herself feel better. Very sad lobster. Anyway op, try not to worry, just keep repeating yourself, praise them when they do it, send them back when they don't. My Son is 12 and still needs reminders on some things.

I still have to smell the 13 year old hair to make sure he's washed it. Both my ds's seem incapable of flushing - I shout them back to do it. Ds2 (9) has dyspraxia and constantly has to be reminded to use his cutlery otherwise he eats with his hands and builds things with his food first he also doesn't realise he needs the toilet until the very last minute which does sometimes result in him wetting himself so again, constant reminders are necessary. I still have to supervise him in the shower or he wouldn't even get wet.

I'm also wondering if they've got some coordination problems...

Go gently on the youngest wth his toiletting. He's going to have a sense of shame and then will be more likely to "hide" this and it won't get better. He's old enough to have a proper chat with him and listen to him without telling him off. As it isn't working.

So hear him explain why he does it and ask him to come up with a way of doing it. Ask him to come for help if he needs it.

I know it sounds silly but have you shown your dcs how to shower? My ds is 8, and I stay in the room with him and he asks me what he should do first even though he's been told many times before. I remind him to start from the top (hair) then work his way down to his feet. Then rinse.

Same with hand washing - show him how to do it when watch him and remind him. It eventually sticks.

When they were learning to brush their teeth I assume you supervised closely etc. Well it's the same for all the rest.

My colleague told her daughter "if I keep finding poo on your pants, I will ask your teacher how to fix this!" Led to immediate cure..

They both need a daily shower with soap
I'd shower the 8 yr old myself
The 10 year old showers himself and calls me when he's done before leaving . I'd check him over . This is what I do .

I can remember being ambushed by my mother at a similar age so she could scrub the back of my neck with Oil of Ulay laced cotton wool pads!

I think if they are being a bit clingy maybe they will like the extra attention if you supervise more. I personally feel I would want to nice and low key about it so as not to make it a big deal that leads to tension and upset. Just make sure they know you are watching and will notice right away if they don't keep clean. Be firm but fair.

If your sons leave the toilet in a state, you make them clean it.
Supervise their showers and show them how to wash properly, which really, should have been done from a young age so it's automatic.
As for the eating habits, you need to correct it every time.
Some children can't be bothered doing things the right way because they don't see the point...or mum is there to do it for them so really, it's up to you to supervise and teach them.

Keep nagging OP I'm afraid it's the only way. Make it more of a pain for them to not do it eg make them get back in the shower, or clean up if they've made a mess. I've teens and believe me they still need reminding of the basics from time to time. Don't blame yourself, life's hard as a lp.

When my ds was around that age and I found he had peed on the toilet seat, I called him and made him wipe it up. It seemed to focus his attention a bit more!

start again.
sit down and calmly tell them that we are going back to basics on hygiene.
make a little sign for the bathroom

1. pee/pooh
2. wipe
3. flush

4 wash hands with soap 5 dry hands

Show it to them, and then say, you expect that every single time. As far as possible, every time you hear them go, go and wait outside the bathroom.
When they come out, ask them if they remembered the 5 steps? Check where you can (is loo flushed, is basin wet, has towel been used.
Give them praise when donw and send them back to start agian when not done.
As starting again will take longer, it will be to their advantage to do it first time.

Then meal times, when you clal them to eat, send them to wash hands first. This is good practice anyway. I remember my mum ALWAYS sending us to wash hands before dinner.
Inspect hands as they sit down. They should be properly clean, and wet and if necessary give them a sniff, if they don't smell of soap, send them back.

I have sympathy, I too realised the hand soap in the bathroom was not being used up and did a bit of shaming to rmeind them, but mine are older than yours.
As to shampoo, I think at 8 and 10, there needs to be some supervision eg, - ds it is shower time, please make sure you wahs your hair, and then checking afterwards it is clean as well as wet.
I regularly send all of mine back upstairs to do teeth as well.