To wonder if feminism fucked us over

[splendidisolation]

Looking around at lots of relationships -

Women got the right to work and make money.

In many cases this seems to mean that they now have the right to pay bills, rents and mortgages as well as doing the lions share of cooking, household chores and childcare whilst feeling under intense pressure to engage in hardcore grooming and be sex goddesses.

In the 60s many women didnt work and let their lady gardens grow free - it was all men really knew or wanted.

Fast forward 50 years and they're expected to have careers and strip it all off.

Im muddling loads of points here but does anyone see what I mean?

My DP is pretty good but I still pull more weight than him. The other evening I got home late and started to get up to make dinner. He was like "dont bother yourself making dinner, lets just make sandwiches".

Sandwiches? Bother? I mean, I appreciate the gesture mate but its like...why not just make fucking dinner yourself?

Sorry for this rambling, ranting and general mish mash of thoughts.

Feel free to muse!

Oh, god -the old "feminists are humourless" line.

Bert 💃💃

Bertrand - but if it's enough to live on then what's the difference between that and benefits, except in name? What would gd any incentive for people to study or progress if they were assured of a citizens income regardless? What if too many people didn't want to earn extra, where would the taxes come to pay for it? Huge earners pay huge taxes.

I sort of think this sometimes. Now the economy is such that we don't just have the 'right' to work, but it's what is fully expected of us.

On top of this we bear children and then have to return back to work often when the baby is only a few months old. So someone else gets to bring up our babies while we are expected to work and keep a house on top of it all and then there is the issue of mummy shaming from people for either being a working mum or being a stay at home mum or anything in the middle.

Not easy being a female.

Yeah I got that, just not sure how useful English A level is for teaching the meaning of French words - wrongly in this case.

I really fucking hate it when people on here make out that if the OP's relationship is unequal then it is because that individual woman hasn't pushed hard enough to make it so and if she were a proper feminist she would be fine 'just like me, the perfect feminist role model'. Let me tell you, organising an after school club via WhatsApp for 30 children. Every single last one of them on my list is a mum, not a dad, most working parents trying to juggle after school clubs, so please let's all stop denying the trend of the mental load just because in our house we have fought tooth and nail to make it otherwise. Individual battles won't fix it alone. It will take policy changes, monetary changes, social changes.

I think the citizen's income would be pretty basic. Well, very basic. And it would replace all benefits. Very few people would happily live on benefit level income for long. There's been lots of research done and theoretically it would work and be significantly cheaper than the current system.

At no point have I ever suggested you are humourless!

This is an observation you have made- I have actually been trying to have a laugh with you! Sorry to have caused offence.

Also, re your last comment about feminism meaning equality for women... it means equality for women with men. Which makes up: people. So that was the lexical root for my new favourite word. It is obviously a silly lighthearted contribution... you can take off your wooden shoes now 😂

Women worked a long time before the 60s. Women working isnt a product of feminism. Equal pay is though

@Disneybump

Feminists would literally hate me I think...

I'm a feminist and I wouldn't hate you. You're entitled to make choices and live your life as you choose (yay feminism!)

Peopleism though? You don't have to set the world on fire to be a feminist. Do you believe in women's equality, do you notice women's oppression? Are you kind to other women wherever possible?

" Individual battles won't fix it alone. It will take policy changes, monetary changes, social changes."

This, this, and some more of this.

@Arealhumanbeing thank you! I'm kind to everyone, women and men, whenever possible!

I think I've misunderstood mumsnet, being relatively new. I always thought it to be a supportive place to share experiences, ask opinions or just express feelings and receive support and stories to normalise how you act/think/feel or gain some insight if you think you may be wrong.

But, actually, it's just a lot of people getting at each other. I don't consider myself a feminist because in my experience I have found many can be judgemental and challenging and that makes me feel rubbish! I've seen alot of that on here today (not you... thank you for your kindness!) which has done less for my opinion of feminism than ever. And also my opinion of mumsnet. I think I'll be deleting my account!

Mumsnet is a discussion forum. It has support sections as well, but AIBU is definitely not one of those. It is the most argumentative part of the site, usually, and not for the faint-hearted! I've been here for years and I don't much post in AIBU. Try Chat or one of the specific topics for support rather than debate.

If you're not a feminist you better hand back your right to education, to vote, to drive, to work.

If you believe in these rights and want to hold onto all them, then you're a feminist.

You can pretend you're not because a couple of women got up your nose.

I don't consider myself a feminist because in my experience I have found many can be judgemental and challenging and that makes me feel rubbish!

See I just don't understand this. So because some women annoy you (they just happen to be feminists) this means you don't believe in woman's equality?

Also, re your last comment about feminism meaning equality for women... it means equality for women with men. Which makes up: people.

For me it means equality with and then total liberation from men.

I want to go walking at midnight on my own.

I want to go out in public and never ever be catcalled, stared at, smirked at, shouted at or pushed over on to the floor for saying 'no thank you' to a drink. (15 years ago but I hear it's even worse out there now)

I want to dress really nicely and get drunk and go out dancing and meet new people without having to think about "my safety". My God! The endless micro safety measures in an average day.

I want to be my whole, true, confident, talented self at work without there being "consequences" because it puts some of the men about.

I want to hear that women are no longer being raped and murdered by men. Anywhere. Ever.

I want to have no more conversations with my women friends about how they are basically treated as house cleaners and servants.

I want women to feel able to embrace their whole sexuality and make it their business to get truly satisfying sex. Orgasms are important and YES! It does fucking take that long!!

There are lots of feminists who piss me right off! Why that would put me off feminism escapes me.....

Let it rain- agreed. Most men are just working ten putting their feet up when it comes to things like birthday cards or cake candles or fancy dress at school or knowing the sellotape has run out and getting more without being asked or knowing the dcs have grown out if their wellies (ie not an everyday shoe that's easy to spot but something that will crop up at the least convenient moment)...I am deliberately picking examples of the humdrum flotsam and jetsam of everyday life here which add up to the mental load, (something already mentioned).

Also menswear has hardly changed. Look at all the analysis of dresses at the races or awards ceremonies if any public event... what are men wearing?? Suits. No real analysis of whether they shaved their armpits or have chipped nail polish etc- all the fripperies that women are judged on but men have escaped.

@AssasinatedBeauty ahhh that explains alot!

@TatianaLarina actually I've never thought of myself as a feminist. Even pre-up the nose thing.

....

@Disneybump

No problem at all. My friend once told me she isn't a feminist because she wants to get married and felt that meant she wouldn't be welcome.

I just don't like to see women feel that they can't contribute or be interested in feminism because of their personal choices. Of course it's sometimes important to dig deep and find out whether our choices are really and truly, authentically ours. They aren't always. Sometimes our choices are about fitting in and pacifying men.

We're all a complicated mish mash of likes, dislikes, wants, and needs and often these things will contradict each other.

It's ok. No one has to fit one ideal to be a feminist.

@Arealhumanbeing I totally hear you! That's all 100% stuff I agree with. I don't agree with being challenged on here for saying we fit gender stereotypes and it works for us. Someone even commented on not bringing my daughter up that way!? She'll be whoever she wants I'm sure! But she'll see a mum and dad who love each other for the way they are.

Not all men are rapists and murderers and I personally think it causes more of a divide than it does union and equality. But, of course, I do not agree with inconsistent values for women and men. Of course that is wrong, it goes without saying.

But, as I've felt here today, there is a huge divide and what feels like blame and judgement for anyone who happens not to share the exact same views, despite that being the very definition of feminism.

I really appreciate you taking the time to share your non biased views to help me see a more clearly what feminism means to you.

@TatianaLarina what an amazing picture! I love Bill Bailey!

There are lots of feminists who piss me right off! Why that would put me off feminism escapes me.....

Yes.

Lots of men and women piss me right off.
That hasn't put me off men.
And I'm friends with women too.