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Original poster

To wonder if feminism fucked us over

376 replies

splendidisolation · 28/09/2017 20:11

Looking around at lots of relationships -

Women got the right to work and make money.

In many cases this seems to mean that they now have the right to pay bills, rents and mortgages as well as doing the lions share of cooking, household chores and childcare whilst feeling under intense pressure to engage in hardcore grooming and be sex goddesses.

In the 60s many women didnt work and let their lady gardens grow free - it was all men really knew or wanted.

Fast forward 50 years and they're expected to have careers and strip it all off.

Im muddling loads of points here but does anyone see what I mean?

My DP is pretty good but I still pull more weight than him. The other evening I got home late and started to get up to make dinner. He was like "dont bother yourself making dinner, lets just make sandwiches".

Sandwiches? Bother? I mean, I appreciate the gesture mate but its like...why not just make fucking dinner yourself?

Sorry for this rambling, ranting and general mish mash of thoughts.

Feel free to muse!

OP posts:
speakout · 29/09/2017 12:45

I've decided I'm a 'peopleist' rather than a feminist. Feminism makes me feel guilty for not having a successful career or changing the world in any way!!

We need feminism.

It gives me choices. I chose to become a SAHM I wasn't forced into it.
My mother did not have the choice.
We must however be careful not to throw too much out with the bathwater.
I don't want my babies in childcare, I enjoy doing laundry, I enjoy having a happy comfortable home where bills are paid on time, I have time to grow herbs, cook lovely food.
Nothing is ruched or frazzled in the evenings or weekends.
We have time to relax and have fun at the weekends, not stupidly playing catch up.
My OH and kids love coming home to a happy organised house.

Being able to follow different ways of being productive is paramount.
My 4 closest friends are all in the same position.

makeourfuture · 29/09/2017 12:45

A basic (citizen's) income is the way forward I think. Quality affordable housing too. High housing costs put an enormous strain on marriages and families.

BertrandRussell · 29/09/2017 13:05

What's a peoplist?

TatianaLarina · 29/09/2017 13:06

Feminism simply means the principle of women's rights based on equality of the sexes.

Thanks to feminism women have the right to do and be whatever they want. If they want to be a SAHM, working mother, have 10 kids, have no kids, it's entirely up to them.

Quite often feminists have to explain to men the value of household chores .and childcare - 'wifework'.

Disneybump · 29/09/2017 13:07

@BertrandRussell 😂 a ridiculous word I made up! If Feminism means equality then surely we should call it peopleism

BertrandRussell · 29/09/2017 13:08

Another thing that changing work patterns/ capitalism has screwed over is all the stuff that used to be done by volunteers. People aren't often home early enough to be bell ringers and Scout leaders and sports coaches.....

TatianaLarina · 29/09/2017 13:09

It's equality for women though, not people in general, how would 'peopleism' make that clear?

BertrandRussell · 29/09/2017 13:10

"If Feminism means equality then surely we should call it peopleism"

Why?

Disneybump · 29/09/2017 13:10

@AssassinatedBeauty really good point, well made

scaryclown · 29/09/2017 13:10

I do think the economics of feminism.. More accurately the economics of increased female input into the economy have some negatives.. Eg its now impossible to buy a house on one income.. So female work hasn't actually generated more income or more freedom, but i'm Sure has generated more output. So instead of feminist households having more spending power and freedom, everyone actually has less.

It's also increased the labour pool so a lot of jobs have double the possible applicants, so some employers have used this to drive pay down to to absolute minimum below what an individual needs to live on using availability of staff as the justification.
I do think it has encouraged a loss of time for both sexes too, I would prefer a model of single breadwinner households with no bar on which partner was the breadwinner. Now both seem to have to work all the time, and I'm the majority of household, work all the time and still be relatively poor.
It's a shame finance is still dominated by arseholes

KatharinaRosalie · 29/09/2017 13:10

I checked - while DH was a SAHD and while I am and will always be making most of our income, I am still a woman and have not grown a penis. All fine.

scaryclown · 29/09/2017 13:11

When did 'vast majority' start meaning 'some'?

guilty100 · 29/09/2017 13:12

""If Feminism means equality then surely we should call it peopleism"

MyLittleDragon · 29/09/2017 13:15

Makeour - a citizens income?! What happens with the lazy people? (Note:lazy - not "poor" not "disadvantaged" not "uneducated" but lazy. Can't be arsed. Do they get an income? Should there be no managers? Can there be no leaders? Is everyone on the same rate doing the same job? Is it right that a doctor should get paid the same as a receptionist? What is the incentive to become a doctor (or any role requiring years of study, unsociable hours, huge responsibility) if you didn't have to?

OhTheRoses · 29/09/2017 13:15

Agree with everything except s aryclown's last sentence.

Disneybump · 29/09/2017 13:16

@BertrandRussell was only contributing my own lighthearted personal view! We do conform to gender stereotypes the two of us but shouldn't feel old fashioned or '1950s' for it! And peopleism is not a word... I suggested it replace feminism to represent equality! 'Fem' is an abbreviation of 'femme', French for wife. It's where we get 'feminine' etc as lots of English is an amalgamation of French.

MargaretCavendish · 29/09/2017 13:17

Loving the attempt to explain the word feminism to Bertrand!

BertrandRussell · 29/09/2017 13:19

The idea of a citizen's income is that everyone gets a basic income- enough to live on. People can then decide whether they want to work to earn more.

The Green Party had it as a policy at one stage- the conomics of it were fascinating. IIRC if was significantly cheaper than the current system of benefits and so on-and meant practically full employment.

TatianaLarina · 29/09/2017 13:21

Femme means woman actually.

AssassinatedBeauty · 29/09/2017 13:21

@MyLittleDragon, I think the reference to a basic income refers to the idea that every adult would get a minimum state income, regardless of their particular circumstances. It would be enough to live on but no more than that. So then people are free to become doctors, managers, etc to gain extra salary on top of the basic income, to improve their situation beyond the "basic" level.

makeourfuture · 29/09/2017 13:21

its now impossible to buy a house on one income

This is key. We work and work and we just barely keep our heads above water. We are all tired and stressed and grumpy. We see all these things that we are supposed to have to be considered successful. The bar raised even as incomes stagnate....

Listen, this conversation is too cheerful, shall we consider retirement? For so many of us there will be no such thing now. Lives of quiet desperation. Who is going to hire us at 80?

BertrandRussell · 29/09/2017 13:21

"We do conform to gender stereotypes the two of us but shouldn't feel old fashioned or '1950s' for it!"

Why not? And how are you making sure your children don't do the same?

OhTheRoses · 29/09/2017 13:22

Much of the grind is due to consumerism though. We had neighbours where both were breaking their backs because they had no choice. Actually they didn't need the Audi, the villa in Tuscany holidays, the brand new shaker kitchen, the Nanny, etc. The issue was one income and the mortgage and bills wasn't covered in SW London. They did move out after the 2nd child and buy a small business but much of the "hardship" was self inflicted. They could have stayed in their 2 bed house, they could have had a 5 year old focus, they could have holidayed in Cornwall. I got a little tired, even 20 years ago, of "you are so lucky. We were 5/6 yrs older and the first few years of giving up work were on a very very tight budget.

TatianaLarina · 29/09/2017 13:22

(From the Latin originally)

olliegarchy99 · 29/09/2017 13:25

I was working in the 1960s full time
I was working full time in the early 70s in a demanding professional job while being a single parent.
I did not know any woman who did not work at least part-time parent or not.
I realise I was probably in the wrong class to encounter these 'SAHM' and ladies of leisure.
Women's rights have gained us a lot in terms of equality of financial affairs, legal rights, equality at work and pay (when EQUAL jobs are compared) and of course maternity rights.
Most men I know who are in the generation after mine - pull their weight where both partners work Hmm