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Anti-Semitism and the British Left

653 replies

bluebeau · 27/09/2017 11:42

Here they go again. Why does the British Left have such an antisemitism problem?

Labour fringe speaker's Holocaust remarks spark new antisemitism row

A senior Labour MP has said he is shocked at some of the anti-Semitic tweets by party members that come before its disciplinary panel. John Cryer said some of what is written "makes your hair stand up", adding: "This stuff is redolent of the 1930s."

After the Chakrabarti whitewash, I'm not listening to anything Corbyn and the left have to say any more. And don't even get me started on Ken Livingstone. I'll never trust Labour or the left ever again, until they stand up and say, "We allowed anti-semitism to arise within Labour. We just went,'deny, deny, deny' and looked the other way. We were wrong". Then, and only then, will I ever give them the time of day once again.

I doubt it is just coincidental that anti-semitism has only reared its ugly head of late, since Corbyn took over as leader of the Labour party. I'm not saying there was none at all before then, but that was when it got bad. Did you see, a few months back, a Liberal Democrat MP with anti-semitic views started shooting his mouth off? LibDem leader at the time, Tim Farron just turned around and fired him, immediately. That's leadership. Corbyn, on the other hand, has let Labour party anti-semites run riot and basically done nothing. He didn't even deal decisively with Livingstone, who should have been banned from Labour ten times over by now.

Corbyn has damaged forever Labour's reputation as a non-racist party. It took decades to build up that reputation, and just one world class muppet to ruin it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Pannnn · 28/09/2017 06:35

And stirs that shut v well!

mtpaektu · 28/09/2017 06:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

soberexpat · 28/09/2017 07:37

You can hate the state of Israel without being an anti Semite. I know Jews who hate Israel. I don't know anyone of sound mind who likes the state of Israel.

THIS.

I've visited palestine and the left bank and i've seen how the palestinians are treated. it completely opened my eyes.

ujerneyson · 28/09/2017 08:04

That's nice you've visited the Left Bank but that's in Paris. Have you been to the West Bank?

Do you also have any understanding of the issues with Hamas who are causing as much harm as the Israelis and do you also understand that there are Arab, Druze and Christian Israeli's living in Israel sharing equal rights and that it's the only state in the middle east which is a democracy? That huge amounts of aid goes into Gaza from Israel which is prevented from getting through? That Israeli and Arabs doctors work side by side in Israeli hospitals? That Israelis and Arabs study together in the same universities? That an Arab lady won Israeli masterchef? That it's the only country in the Middle East which has no issues with homosexuality? What is going on in Gaza and the West (not Left) Bank is horrendous but it's so much more than just the Israeli's = bad, Palestinians = good. Netanyahu is a nightmare but the Hamas administration is just as bad and until they sort those sides out then we're in a stalemate.

coconuttella · 28/09/2017 08:05

I've read the story the OP linked:

amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/26/new-antisemitism-row-for-labour-over-fringe-speakers-holocaust-remarks-miko-peled

I can't see how this makes Miko Peled anti-Semitic. He's clear that he believes the holocaust occurred but believes that we shouldn't treat holocaust deniers as criminals... I agree. I believe the holocaust was one of the most evil and vile episodes in history, and should serve as a stark reminder of what happens we allow racist hatred to flourish. However, I also believe in the freedom to express ideas and beliefs, however stupid. If dodgy beliefs are to be marginalised, they need to be challenged openly and publicly. Forcing comspiricacy into dark corners and there is no challenge, and they have the opportunity to grow.

Calling someone an anti-Semite just because they don't support banning of Holocaust denial comspiracy theory, makes as much sense as calling an atheist a Jehovah's Witness if they supported freedom of worship.

gamerwidow · 28/09/2017 08:22

VeraGrant I don't think most of the the left do see Israels abuses as worse than other countries. It is possible to condemn israels oppression of Palestine and view Hamas as a bunch of vicious thugs who don't help their cause while simultaneously condemning the Saudis as a brutal evil regime.
It's not either/or you don't have to pick any cause other than human rights for all.

mothertruck3r · 28/09/2017 08:27

I love some of their policies but there is no way I would vote for such a viciously racist party as Labour now. Some of the things coming out wouldn't look out of place in 1930s Germany. Absolutely disgraceful, but then the extreme left always come full circle to meet with the extreme right.

Coastalcommand · 28/09/2017 08:32

Have read the links and still can't see what's anti semetic about the party or the conference?

gamerwidow · 28/09/2017 08:37

Some views have no place in main stream politics and holocaust denial is one of them.
You can debate it as much as you like outside of the party no one is criminalising it but if you want to be part of the club you have to play by the rules. Similarly I would expect people wanting to debate white supremacy or mra or flat earthers or any other fringe views to be told to take a hike.

makeourfuture · 28/09/2017 08:37

If dodgy beliefs are to be marginalised, they need to be challenged openly and publicly

It's the American view. Listen, we all know that the Holocaust happened. You are either an idiot of the highest order or a nut with a wacky political agenda to suggest otherwise.

Much like climate change deniers, it is quick and easy way to cull out those of little intellectual value.

Crackednips · 28/09/2017 08:40

My Muslim friend made a comment about Jews being the focus because the base of the current labour leadership is white middle class and that it reminded them of the start of Hilter.

WTF.... And did you just smile politely and nod in agreement with this muslim friend of yours?

Bottom line as far as I see it is, Mr Corbyn is full square behind the organisations that seek to annihilate the Israeli state. Yes, he sometimes makes the distinction between anti-Israel and anti-Jew, but it's just words - we all know where he wants things to go and it won't be nice for any Jew who wants to hang on to their homeland.

soberexpat · 28/09/2017 08:43

ujerneyson good typo spot - typing in the back of a taxi on the way to a meeting.

cabbagepatchdolly · 28/09/2017 08:51

Because Israel is a fundamentally racist state, in that it privileges those from a jewish ethnicity over people of other ethnicities, particularly those from the palestinian arab population

That's a load of rubbish. There are over 1 million Arab Muslims who are citizens of Israel (overall population just over 8 million) with the same rights as Jews. In contrast there are less than 50,000 Jews living in the whole of the Arab world (overall population 360 million+) having been ethnically cleansed, their land and property stolen, when the state of Israel was formed. Funny how nobody ever talks about their "right of return though".

If you want to see a genuine racist state, try being a non-Muslim in any of the Arab states, where you are considered a "dhimmi" or second class citizen.

makeourfuture · 28/09/2017 08:55

we all know where he wants things to go and it won't be nice for any Jew who wants to hang on to their homeland

Are you suggesting he is planning an invasion?

Crackednips · 28/09/2017 08:55

hear Hera cabbage

Because Israel is a fundamentally racist state

Sixth form ranting....

Crackednips · 28/09/2017 08:58

Yes of course he is, he's hording weapons, home made explosives. He awaits the waves in the Med dying down, and he's off...

coconuttella · 28/09/2017 09:49

It's the American view. Listen, we all know that the Holocaust happened. You are either an idiot of the highest order or a nut with a wacky political agenda to suggest otherwise.

I agree... However, it's one thing to remove those who push the view that the Holocaust never happened, but quite another to seek to remove people who do believe that the Holocaust happened but who also support freedom of speech on the matter (such as Miko Peled in the link). The first supports a conspiracy theory with racist foundations, the second supports free speech. To call the first an anti-Semite is reasonable. To call the second an anti-Semite is preposterous.... Again, it's akin to calling an atheist a religious nutter if they believe in freedom of religion. It's an extreme reaction that is likely to be counter-productive in any fight against anti-semitism. How ironic that it's the DM etc that are so vociferous about this!

StatelessPrincess · 28/09/2017 09:50

such as the muslims who don't like Jews
I'm late to the thread but I just wanted to be another person to say this isn't really true. I'm Muslim and my best friend is Jewish. I hate the Israeli government and violent Zionists, but it's not the same thing, and I don't know any other Muslims who dislike all Jewish people either.

Tainbri · 28/09/2017 09:59

I actually find the rise of this "hard" labour left quite scary, as a PP has said it's going to join the far right soon and nobody will have noticed. Seems more of a rally than conference to me.

retreatwhispering · 28/09/2017 10:16

There is certainly a problem with thuggery and nasty, regressive thinking on the far left. I often see examples of misogyny and, if I were Jewish, am sure that examples of anti Semitism would stand out to me. That the right wing does it too should not reassure us.

retreatwhispering · 28/09/2017 10:17

YY Tainbri

Crackednips · 28/09/2017 10:18

Same here Tainbri How decent, Labour party members can stomach this current bunch of Stalinist, anti Semitic, terrorist supporting loons is beyond me...

I've voted Labour since 1987. I wouldn't touch this lot with a barge pole

makeourfuture · 28/09/2017 10:37

terrorist supporting

See, this sort of language.....

FrankensteinsSister · 28/09/2017 10:42

If anyone wants a background of anti semitism in Europe, this book is AMAZING. Seriously.
www.amazon.co.uk/Devil-Jews-Medieval-Conception-Anti-Semitism-ebook/dp/B00O3Q5NTK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1506591681&sr=8-1&keywords=the+devil+and+the+jews&tag=mumsnetforum-21

sunseptember · 28/09/2017 10:57

Absolutely disgraceful, but then the extreme left always come full circle to meet with the extreme right

This x 1000000000 infinity Grin

Its why I shudder at any extremes. Both as bad as each other but if you want to put actual death counts in and sheer destruction of life and lives then I think the far left wins by a mile Sad

moderation is key, its the one thing I am trying to drum into DD I dont exert my politics over her - I am middle swing voter but I am trying to show her moderate is best, not extreme.