Anti-Semitism and the British Left

[bluebeau]

Here they go again. Why does the British Left have such an antisemitism problem?

Labour fringe speaker's Holocaust remarks spark new antisemitism row

A senior Labour MP has said he is shocked at some of the anti-Semitic tweets by party members that come before its disciplinary panel. John Cryer said some of what is written "makes your hair stand up", adding: "This stuff is redolent of the 1930s."

After the Chakrabarti whitewash, I'm not listening to anything Corbyn and the left have to say any more. And don't even get me started on Ken Livingstone. I'll never trust Labour or the left ever again, until they stand up and say, "We allowed anti-semitism to arise within Labour. We just went,'deny, deny, deny' and looked the other way. We were wrong". Then, and only then, will I ever give them the time of day once again.

I doubt it is just coincidental that anti-semitism has only reared its ugly head of late, since Corbyn took over as leader of the Labour party. I'm not saying there was none at all before then, but that was when it got bad. Did you see, a few months back, a Liberal Democrat MP with anti-semitic views started shooting his mouth off? LibDem leader at the time, Tim Farron just turned around and fired him, immediately. That's leadership. Corbyn, on the other hand, has let Labour party anti-semites run riot and basically done nothing. He didn't even deal decisively with Livingstone, who should have been banned from Labour ten times over by now.

Corbyn has damaged forever Labour's reputation as a non-racist party. It took decades to build up that reputation, and just one world class muppet to ruin it.

I'm not especially up for indepth political analysis. But I did just want to pipe up that the daft singing today was the naffest ( and most Un-British thing I've seen for a long time). And listening to Corbyn's attempt at school conference speech highlights one major flaw in describing the phenomenon as a cult of personality....

The hard Left globally is violent in a way that the Right - hard or otherwise - isn't

What an inverted pyramid of piffle.

Sorry party conference. My daughter's debating society would eat him for elevenses.

And I'm a raving liberal lefty by the way.

conciseandncie - the concept of liking a state is a tricky one. Do you know anyone who likes (or for that matter hates) the state of Morocco, or Uruguay. Most people recognise that there are states, and they have governments that do some things right and others wrong. it's only Israel that seems to have people who hate the state itself.

Existential - there may be anti-semitic Tories, but they're not so open about it. I doubt if anyone will speak at a meeting at next week's conference and get wild applause for saying "we need to be able to discuss the Holocaust, yes, or no", for example.... equally, very few Tories would say publicly that you can tell Jews by their big noses or that Hitler is the Zionist god

I know Jews who hate Israel. I don't know anyone of sound mind who likes the state of Israel. I am of completely sound mind and I absolutely love the state of Israel. However, I don't love many of the actions of the current Israeli Government. There is a huge difference in the two. I know of no jews who dislike the state of israel. I know many who support Israel blindly and many many more who support the existence of the the state of israel have serious concerns about some of the actions they take.

The hard Left globally is violent in a way that the Right - hard or otherwise - isn't

what an utter load of balls.

Well said, Sam.

Can someone give me an idiot's guide to how the Labour Party (as in its leaders and members) are anti Semitic and have been so at the LP conference.
When I say anti Semitic, I mean, and presume others do, that it is showing a dislike for Jews and treating them unfairly/cruelly because they are Jewish.

This 'story' has been reported over and over by the Tymes, Sunn and the Daily fall. It's fake news.

The Labour party is not the Labour party any more.

It is momentums vision of the Labour party. a group run by middle class white kids looking to be rebels whilst still sending their kids to private school and living in mainly the towns.

Its the party of many run by the few now. Corbyn is a puppet a convenient peg to hang the party on.

I think the chanting is symptomatic of the kid of people who watched the young ones in their teens and are now grown up and think that this is acceptable. its not.

Anti semitic , run by a misogynistic cabal of men who have no intention of listening to anyone other than momentum.

if you don't believe me go along to a momentum meeting and try disagreeing with a speaker.

never in all my years of watching politics have I seen such a disgraceful campaign as the last one by labour with bully boy tactics defacing posters.

all their big headline promises from the last election have gone. they wanted the young vote so they promised no tuition fees and have now gone back on that. all of their promises - all of them - have the caveat that they will have to wait and see if they can implement them when they get elected.

in other words they will say and do anything to get power. and then they will complete fuck it up.

I used to work with Jeremy corbyn years ago in London. I didn't like him then. he hasn't changed.

Makejam, how does misspelling bolster the idea that this is "fake news"? And I'm pretty quoting a Trumpism doesn't lend credibility either.

Here's an interview with Ruth Smeeth and one short run-down of how the Livingstone incidents were handled. uk.businessinsider.com/mp-ruth-smeeth-ive-never-seen-anti-semitism-in-labour-like-this-2016-9

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/04/labour-party-become-institutionally-anti-semitic/

It's also funny how Livingstone, McClusky and Loach can say they have never seen anti-semitism in the party, as if they are the arbiters. If I said I'd never seen discrimination against Pakistanis, or against women in hijabs, I'd rightly be accused of condescension or worse....

I'm not sure how anti Semitic the Labour party is as a whole is beyond Ken Don't Mention the War Livingstone and Nasty Naz Shah however I think there is anti Semitism on the left. As someone mentioned up thread there is a linkage between anti colonialism, being against the actions of the state of Israel and the wider Jewish community.
I have spoken to Muslims some of whom are friends of mine who have strong anti Israeli and anti Jewish views in general. I also recently spoke to a young labour voting colleague who thought that the Israeli's should be moved to America. In Scotland there is also a linkage between the Palestinian cause and Irish Republicanism. Look at the amount of Palestinian flags you see at Parkhead.

I think the danger of the hard left in the UK and Europe is not so much that their psychically dangerous but the fact that they seem intent on dividing the population into smaller and smaller groups and damaging our psyche as nation. They want us to accept that our society is built on genocide, inherently racist, sexist, disgustingly white and Judaeo Christian, Islamophobic ( we wont mention the sexism, anti Semitism and homophobia because that would be Islamaphobic). Once we accept that it will create a vacuum that can then be filled by a book of helpful advice on how to live your life and organise society written by an old dead guy with a beard. They are right it will be but his name wont be Karl Marx.

and living in mainly the towns

What is wrong with living in a town?

This 'story' has been reported over and over by the Tymes, Sunn and the Daily fall. It's fake news.

Do not criticise Jeremy. Do not criticise Jeremy. Do not criticise Jeremy. Do not criticise Jeremy. Do not criticise Jeremy. Do not criticise Jeremy. Do not criticise Jeremy.

Agree with everything Mummymeister said.

I think the danger of the hard left in the UK and Europe is not so much that their psychically dangerous

Antisemitic and telepathic? They're like supervillains, dammit!

Can someone give me an idiot's guide to how the Labour Party (as in its leaders and members) are anti Semitic and have been so at the LP conference.
When I say anti Semitic, I mean, and presume others do, that it is showing a dislike for Jews and treating them unfairly/cruelly because they are Jewish.

^This

Totally agree mummy

makeourfuture - I see we meet again on a thread criticising Corbyn!

nothing wrong with living in the towns. but look at the votes for labour and conservative. look at the demographic of the brexit vote. look at where momentum come from.

if you want to represent the many then your policies have to come from all areas of the country and society. not just from people in one particular area.

Lots of Labour voters and Leave voters in Northern towns.

Mummy is unfortunately right. It has taken me forever to get my head around this. The Labour party does not exist anymore. The Labour party is momentum. And to be honest even if the centre of the party tried to break away now, well I feel it would be too little too late. Those of us who have spent their life supporting labour have to find another party.

yes violet. I should have said major conurbations. I think a lot of labour voters voted leave or at least it wasn't as split along party lines.

my point is Jeremy and what you see up on the stage is not Labour. it is Momentum. they are running the show, calling the shots and setting the policies. its not grass roots, its not MPs its a small cabal and they are from urban areas. Vote labour get Momentum. and they don't care if the whole system collapses, all of it. I do. I also think this is the antithesis of transparent politics.

Do not criticise Jeremy. Do not criticise Jeremy. Do not criticise Jeremy. Do not criticise Jeremy. Do not criticise Jeremy. Do not criticise Jeremy. Do not criticise Jeremy.

No, but some actual evidence would be nice.

YANBU. I don't think many Labour members understand the Middle East at all, including Corbyn.

I also don't trust Labour because of brexit. I'll never vote for them again. I'm either voting Lib Dem or Greens from now on. I don't care if it's a two horse race, I will vote for whoever makes most sense.