To wonder who's life would be prioritised, mother or baby?

[splendidisolation]

Just one of those random train of thought questions that popped up in my head.

Imagine this theoretical scenario, a mother is giving birth and the doctor's have to decide whether to save her life or the newborn on its way out.
Ethically, which would they be forced to choose and why?

Imagine the mother's partner or a family member is present. Obviously horrific, but would they be asked to decide? Who makes that decision?

Maryz I think everyone must be going mad with you as Elendon seems to be seeing a different thread to the rest of us.

There's no such thing as choosing

Maybe not in a fully staffed hospital, but what about the home birth that proceeds quickly and goes dramatically down hill when there is only one midwife present? Or the delivery that happens on the side of the road on the way to hospital with a random passer by taking instructions over the phone from 999? (Rare but not infrequent)

Or, outside of emergency situations, when the mother-to-be has a life-threatening condition? (I know someone who chose not to get their brain tumour treated while pregnant, for example)

Of course there are many situations when a choice has to be made. Thankfully they are far fewer than they used to be, in part because of the number of hospital deliveries over home births but also because modern medicine has made childbirth far safer than it was for our grandmothers.

www.theguardian.com/world/2012/nov/14/ireland-woman-dies-after-abortion-refusal

Caused outrage in Ireland at the time and rightly so.

Maryz - don't let it get to you - it's pretty clear which one of you is being rational and which ones isn't

I haven't read the whole thread, so apologies if this has been posted. A lot depends on the culture and ethics of the country. In Ireland there was a high profile case recently where a woman died.

She had was pregnant and the foetus was dying, and the mothers health was dangerously deteriorating as a result. Her husband asked for the foetus to be aborted, to protect the mother's health. They were refused, they were of Indian origin, and told that this 'was not the way we do things in a Catholic country'.

The father campaigned afterwards.

Mother, especially if she has actual born children, the foetus is just a potential child. People who have already been born and are citizens come first, foetuses are just potential people.

maryz. Totally agree with Jam.

I think doctors do everything possible to save both. I did tell my husband if something happened and it were a choice of baby or me that he should chose baby.

My labour with dc1 was getting a bit tricky and as I was being prepped for theatre, the consultant told me and DH that if the need arises, they will prioritise saving the life of the mother over the baby.

Maryz posted this morning that she was leaving the thread as she felt she was being attacked. Just after I posted:

"I too believe that Maryz is trying, very poorly I might add, to defend the indefensible."

Maryz posted later that there should be a dispassionate discussion.

She has failed on both counts.

I'm not for one minute supporting you in your arguments regarding Savita. You are wrong!

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/apr/19/savita-halappanavar-abortion-midwife

Welp. I've now officially seen it all on Mumsnet; a thread in which my saying that it's hideous that Irish women have to choose between paying a grand for an abortion in England and risking illegal abortion pills gets me accused of being pro-life. I give to BPAS' campaign in NI, FGS.

Obviously it's the woman. However, as has been pointed out, in 99.99% of scenarios the woman has the better chance anyway and/or the baby will die if the woman does. And yes, for myself I'm fine with that. I'm not going to leave my existing child motherless for the sake of a baby who isn't yet born.

But you won't get it right this time ffs! Wake up and smell the coffee Maryz.

Little steps, referendum first. Win it. Vote YES! Then attack the 8th amendment through the courts. That's the proper way for the future of all the women in Ireland.

I've had an abortion through BPAS Tiramisu after my English doctor refused my request to terminate a pregnancy I knew was going to miscarry. Thankfully it was free.

She's left the thread, Elendon. Why are you constantly wanting to attack her? No one on the thread knows what you're trying to prove, just give over.

Arguing that the law was not the contributory factor in ONE SPECIFIC CASE is not the same as saying that the law is not very, very wrong.

Elendon, I think you are projecting opinions on to Maryz that she has shown no sign of holding. I understand your anger, but I think it is completely misdirected. Save it for those who are actively trying to restrict women's access to abortions - not pro-choicers who disagree with you on one point about one case.

Just ignore her, Maryz, she's goading you.

From the Guardian article I linked to above: Please note the testimony from the Midwife Ann Maria Burke.

'One of the reasons that Halappanavar's death became an international news story was her husband Praveen's insistence that hospital staff told his wife that she couldn't have a termination because Ireland is a Catholic country. During the inquest, the midwife Ann Maria Burke came forward to apologetically explain that she was the source of this remark. She said that she had only wanted to throw light on Irish culture for Halappanavar, explaining: "It was the law of the land and there were two referendums where the Catholic church was pressing the buttons." From reportage, it looks as though she was all but slapped on the wrist by the coroner, who told her that Irish public hospitals do not follow any religious tenet or dogma.

Burke deserves praise, not sanction, for telling Halappanavar the truth as to why she couldn't have a termination. Where Astbury defends her medical practice through reference to law, and MacLoughlin places Irish hospitals above religious dogma, Burke alone acknowledges the logic behind the legality. The only possible logic for denying Halappanavar the treatment she would have received in other developed countries is Catholic logic.'