to consider reporting this family for having lied to the school?

[mnbvcx445566]

Two parents and one child. They live nowhere near the primary state school they applied for and got into. I think - am pretty sure - they used a different address to the one they live at.
School very sought after. Shall I report them?

I've looked carefully into myself and this is what I think:

1- I am not jealous. If I had the chance to do the same I would not. I would like my child to go to a great state school so they are lucky for that but I would not play the way they did.

2- If I report them the child will have problems at school (? don't quite know what happens in those cases). The parents might have a breakdown or something having to face the backlash. Obviously they have brains and made their choice and would only pay the consequences of their actions but - I - would have precipitated the situation by reporting them. Maybe the system is so fucked anyway that what they did is not that big of a deal. Surely the school should have done 1000 checks before awarding places so there might be something I do not know. What I do know is that they live miles from that school, which has a very very small catchment area.

3- I should report them because if my child did not get into that school 'legally' I would despise people who took advantage of a loophole and took 'my child's place'.

WWYD?

I am a long-time poster/user but I have opened a different account as I do not want to be recognised. (If I do not want to face them and tell them that they are committing an illegal/immoral action does it mean that I am in the wrong thinking of calling the school anonymously?)

This all sounds very Orwellian. I'd just leave it, nothing to do with you.

Here op they check your council tax so if they have a house in catchment im guessing they used that as they would be paying the council tax if rental house empty. Maybe thats how they did it ?

So on MN it's fine to report if you have concerns about benefit fraud because 'if they have done nothing wrong at least you're better safe than sorry', but a potential spot of fraud on a school application, well that's just fine. It's perfectly fine ti try and find ways to cheat the school admission system because that's just what some caring middle class families do whilst telling themselves there's no victim.

If a child gains a place due to someone cheating the system, then another local child misses out and has to go to a different school out of area.

OP, I would call the council. Say you aren't sure but you've heard this information and feel you need to pass it on. It's then up to the council.

I'd report this.

DS1 missed out on a place at our local school - the only school within walking distance of our house - because it was oversubscribed. I'd be furious if I thought he'd been denied a place because another parent had lied on their application form. This isn't a victimless crime. If the school is oversubscribed, then another child, who has a more legitimate claim to a place at that school, has lost out and had to go elsewhere. Why should the child who got the place fraudulently get more consideration than the child who lost out as a result of someone else's fraud?

If there are legitimate reasons for the child to get a place at this school they live nowhere near - adoption, SEN, safety issues because of parents work or anything else - then the council will be aware of those and no harm will be done by reporting.

Also, you may not have been told about things like SEN. I have a child with ASD. Some of the other parents at school know about this, but I don't make a point of telling every parent I meet - especially ones I don't class as friends - all about my child's difficulties. Some of the people I have talked to about this have been surprised because "he doesn't look like he has autism" (goodness only knows what they expect someone with autism to look like).

I can't understand why you are so invested in this?

Report it, if for no other reason than you can't let it drop.
I am aware of a case in my city where a child goes to a school some way away because of threats of violence from an estranged family member, whose kids go to the 'catchment' school. You don't know the whole story you barely know this family.

You're not unreasonable to be fuming. I think it's awful that people go to these lengths and very typical of the me me me attitude we get in a capitalist society AND not something they should be passing on to their children. I don't buy all that "tiger mum" rubbish. It's just self centred.

This happened recently at the secondary my daughter goes where one mum lied giving her mother in law's address and another mum's child didn't get in. I could totally understand why she was fuming and wander to report the other mum.

The brass neck of people when it comes to these things amazes me (forcing their kids to go to Catholic Church for a few months to get into the local catholic girls school, then literally NEVER going to church again being one).

Personally I wouldn't report them. In the same way I have never reported mums who I know claim benefits whilst working. What does it achieve for you apart from making yourself feel slightly shit about yourself?

Take some deep breathes and avoid those people like the plague

Reporting someone innocent for benefit fraud can cause distress and financial difficulties, whilst the person is under investigation , it's not really comparable to a school admissions investigation.

@CaptainMarvelDankers

Also I am far from middle class, unlike many on MN I also wouldn't report a struggling single mum, with no support and on benefits who get's a tenner cash in hand here and there. I just don't think the world is black and white.

Neither would anyone else. But what most people would (quite rightly) report, is a 'struggling single mum' who has a partner living with her (although she claims he isn't, and only stays one night a week,) who brings in £250-£300 a week net pay, whilst she claims full housing benefit, tax credits, free school meals, free school trips, free dental, and God knows what else.

And this type is more prevalent than the 'poor little single mum' who 'earns a tenner a week in a pub.'

Upshot is, it may be spiteful and bitter to report this, but so what? Why should they be allowed to get away with it. If my children were unable to get into the school of their choice, and then I discovered another child in their class lived 10 miles away, damn right I would report it. Why should my kids lose out on being at the school of their choice in THEIR area, near to THEIR home, just to accommodate someone's childcare needs?

As has been said (several times,) if there is a good reason for the child to be in a school that is not in their catchment area, then they nothing will happen if it's reported, will it?

Mumsnet is weird sometimes - why is the OP getting comments like 'myob' and 'you have too much time on your hands'? The OP has spotted something strange about a school admission, is it not the right thing to do to report it and leave it to the powers that be to do what they will with the information? It's not like the OP will be deciding what the outcome will be, she most likely won't find out anything (unless the child moves to another school then she might guess).

The whole school admissions crap is a horrible experience made worse by people who lie and cheat. If a parent decides to lie and cheat then they are the ones who are putting the child's school place at risk once they have started, not the people who end up reporting. It's bad enough that people can 'lie' legitimately to gain a place (having child baptised before submitting the application, they lived closer than we did and so gained a place in the faith school and we lost ours - I say lost because this child went into the class and my child didn't and that was the only change in the class from nursery to reception).

I've reported a family before, I knew they would be lying because they had a relative who lived in the same street as the school and they lived on the other side of town. They were very vocal about how the authorities were unfair and that they were being discriminated against for not living close to the school, so I know that my information was looked in to. They did actually get a place in a school in a different town - outstanding, oversubscribed - and very close to another relative's house. At the time I thought that no one would have the gall to lie twice, but now I'm not so sure.

OP if you have doubts then report them, it isn't up to you to have to find out more information. If the child fits the criteria for a reason you are not aware of then nothing will happen, I doubt the parents will even be informed. There is too much lying and cheating when it comes to school places, I'd pass on all of the information I know. If a family is telling the truth then they won't have to answer to anything.

Cosmic why would you feel shit about yourself for reporting someone else's lie? You're not the one telling the lie. Like MsPass points out, it's not victimless. If I had the information which would help one of the victims I'd absolutely pass it over. I'd feel like shit about myself if I didn't.

I would report them. It will be investigated before any action is taken. If they are playing by the rules, then there will be no consequences. If they aren't, well then they deserve whatever comes - this is not a victimless crime and it punishes those who do play by the rules.

The OP has already said they dont know all the facts yet somehow knows the child doesn't have sens/isn't adopted but does know that the person committed fraud even though they don't even talk to the mum well enough to know any of this.

We can't get our child into the local schools because they're all faith based. In spite of the fact they were raised catholic. DS is in his school perfectly legitimately. Thank goodness too because his previous one was woeful at dealing with his SNs.

I'm sure people think I've lied to get him in too. I most certainly didn't. We just got lucky.

I think you should stay out of it. There are all sorts of reasons out of catchment children get into schools (parents work there/are governors/have some other connection to the school, or school will meet child's needs better - they might be needs which you would not be aware of) or the school might have had fewer applicants because it is usually oversubscribed and people didn't want to risk being give a place at school that no-one chooses because it was full so they applied to a pretty good school which was less likely to be oversubscribed.

If it's bothering you a lot you could ask them.

'They - have - a place they rent where the school is.'

This ^ . They may not live there now but could easily say they plan to. Submitting details to a school of a property in their name in the catchment area is sufficient 'proof'.

Honestly op glad you're leaving it. It's school admissions, not armed robbery.

Middle-class crime. You have alot of time on your hands op and are just loving this

Mind your own business

How did this even come up on your radar? You must know them, why do you dislike them enough to spend time poring over maps etc?

There coild.be many reasons why they legitimately got a place, adoption, ehcp.

Of course report!

As long as your report is honest, and it seems it is, and not malicious: you are not making false accusation for the fun of it, do report.

If the family just ended up with that school legitimately, the school and council have their correct address, there's not going to be any consequence.

If they have cheated the system, they stole a school place from someone else. There's a family who lost out on their nearest school. It's not fair.

I would feel shit about myself to turn a blind eye on unfair or illegal things happening, not for reporting them.

'It's not fair. '

No, many things aren't. The fact is they have a place nearby that they rent, so all above board. The op would make herself look like a right busybody if she 'reported'.

Well after a night of 'sleep' I have a much clearer idea of the situation and myself.

1- The child does not have SEN. Of that I am sure. The private schools they applied for do not have SEN provisions. The child is now going to a state school because they can't quite afford the private fees. I won't go into more details on this as I want to keep anonymity for myself and them.

2- I have now understood why this disturbs me so much. At this point, if fraud has been committed, an unknown child has been kicked out of the way to make space for hers. I am disturbed by the idea that she would most likely do that to MY child if s/he got into the way of her child. I have never met a parent who (might have) has done this. If this has happened, it makes me very uncomfortable to chat to a person who thinks her child deserves better based on the fact that s/he is her child.

3- she is not my friend. I have a good knowledge of what goes on into her life despite not being 'friends'. If she were a friend I would sit down with her, talk to her openly about this, and if this was indeed what she did I would make sure she knows it's unacceptable behaviour and there could potentially be very serious consequences.

4- I wondered whether I should report because some years ago a case 'exploded' about a school near to where I live. It became clear that a large number of parents had fiddled with the documents in order to get their children into said school. This became quite a news locally. What's the difference between lots of parents doing this or one?

5- I do have many acquaintances or more or less close friends but I would not want to discuss this with them. Why would I? Much better to talk about it with people I/she do not know given that no one is hurt at the end of the discussion.

6- I won't report her, too much emotional investment. I would not care to know the final decision if I reported, that was not my point anyway, nor would I want for her child to be kicked out of a school, he has no fault. But if rules are rules (and we are not talking about music in 1930s Germany) then breaking them at someone else's expense is not right. This is an extremely affluent area, maybe if she did commit fraud she took away the place of a very rich child who can afford top fees anyway, but maybe that child is not well off at all, and maybe that child should have had a top state education because s/he rightfully lived near the school (though as I said earlier it might be that the system is so broken that this last point does not make much sense in the big scheme of things.)

In any case, given that I do think she has committed fraud, adn despite not being able to stop seeing her, I will detach myself from this 'relationship' as much as possible, because I do not feel comfortable with it.

You should have posted on Primary education OP.

There's a very similar thread on there which is much more of a discussion and less of the 'mind your own business' nonsense than you get on AIBU.

The title is 'Renting to get in to primary school' I think. Consensus was to report as its potentially fraud. Apparently Councils do their own check but rely on reports too. If everything is fine and legit then nothing happens. If fraud then they deal with it.

How does having a place nearby that they rent make it above board? That's the thing that is most likely to not make it above board.

You can't apply from a rental property you don't live in. It's illegal according to the admissions code.

Planning to live there makes no difference at all.

Honestly, just report it OP. If they have got a place legally then it'll make no difference and they almost certainly will have no idea.

'if she did commit fraud she took away the place of a very rich child who can afford top fees anyway, '

I don't get the fraud thing. They rent nearby, even if not their full time home it could be.

How is it fraud? It would only be fraud if they gave an address that they neither owned nor rented