to consider reporting this family for having lied to the school?

[mnbvcx445566]

Two parents and one child. They live nowhere near the primary state school they applied for and got into. I think - am pretty sure - they used a different address to the one they live at.
School very sought after. Shall I report them?

I've looked carefully into myself and this is what I think:

1- I am not jealous. If I had the chance to do the same I would not. I would like my child to go to a great state school so they are lucky for that but I would not play the way they did.

2- If I report them the child will have problems at school (? don't quite know what happens in those cases). The parents might have a breakdown or something having to face the backlash. Obviously they have brains and made their choice and would only pay the consequences of their actions but - I - would have precipitated the situation by reporting them. Maybe the system is so fucked anyway that what they did is not that big of a deal. Surely the school should have done 1000 checks before awarding places so there might be something I do not know. What I do know is that they live miles from that school, which has a very very small catchment area.

3- I should report them because if my child did not get into that school 'legally' I would despise people who took advantage of a loophole and took 'my child's place'.

WWYD?

I am a long-time poster/user but I have opened a different account as I do not want to be recognised. (If I do not want to face them and tell them that they are committing an illegal/immoral action does it mean that I am in the wrong thinking of calling the school anonymously?)

How depressing this thread is.
About half of those responding are saying that school place fraud is no-ones business and the Op should butt out.

People are not willing to see any responsibility towards others or to promoting a fairer system and the application of school admissions criteria. They are willing to wash their hands of any responsibility and to justify taking no action - turning a blind eye to known wrong. It makes them complicit.

This individualism and belief that we are only responsible for our very own actions and the impact they have on ourselves is just wrong. Our choices do affect others. Those who cheat the system, do other kids out of places....and they are more likely to be the wealthy that do it and those least able to play the system are those who are poorer and who lose out. And those who turn a blind eye to the cheating allow it to happen more and make it normal. The end result will be that only those with financial clout have any chance of getting a place at the better schools. The system may not be perfect now, but this isn't an excuse to do nothing.

If you look at Admissions websites, they all have pages telling people what to do if fraud is suspected. They want people to report fraud and they need people to report. They will then investigate if they think investigation is needed. We can either work WITH the system to try and make it work better, or we can turn a blind eye, deny any responsibility and UNDERMINE the system. This is the reality of doing nothing...it is not a neutral act, it is actually working against the system.

People who suspect strongly that fraud has happened and choose not to report are not doing nothing, they are undermining the system and being complicit in the fraud.

So anyone who thinks they know fraud has occurred and who has decided not to report their suspicions, because they want an easy life, or can't be bothered, or will feel a bit uncomfortable, needs to know that they can't just make this decision and then forget all about it. By choosing to do nothing when you have knowledge is a choice to be complicit - to tell yourself that you have no role in any of it by doing nothing is deluding yourself.

Ihatemotd what you did is still disgusting. A friend of mine with a disability had to get her child to school 3 miles in the wrong direction instead of the catchment school nearby. It wrecked her fragile health getting her there and back and she suffered a breakdown from the stress. There are reasons why local kids are given priority. Because of you somebody else might have lost their health or livelihood, and somebody's child will be placed miles from their friends and support networks. Your needs are directly in conflict with those of others, and it is you breaking the rules of a system designed to be as fair as possible because for some reason you've decided your needs are more important than anybody else's. Its morally indefensible, and I hope this thread makes you at best very uneasy with your position, because I'd you were in my child's class I'd be sorely tempted to report you.

REPORT

There will be no consequences unless there was fraud
Unlike with alleging benefit fraud, no suspension during investigations

The family just provides the supporting docs, then case closed.... or fraud revealed

If a naice mc family steals money from a poorer child, do you let them keep it ?
myob, because your child is not the victim ?

pp here seem very keen for mc fraudsters to get away with gaming the system,
to use their elbows to push down other families who can't buy or rent a second home,
or who can't afford a bung for a fraudulent statement of address etc

ihate had her reasons and needed support from her dm

Ooh it is preferable for people nearby if they get priority to the schools especially due to the traffic chaos. I live near a primary.

Personally i think I would rather not have the worry of pretending I lived at another address to secure a school place

Genuine question, why would a child with sens (who lives 10 miles away from a certain school,) have more right to go to that school than a child without sens who lives 5 minutes walk away?

Because it will be the only school able to meet his needs as per the statement/ehcp. It is very unlikely a child with SENs will be placed 10 miles away to begin with unless they're absolutely is no other choice

*there

"Why are special concessions made for sens children"

Those children already have a large disadvantage and having the right ( in theory) of choosing the school that best suits themmay help narrow the gap. It only applies to those with ehcp ( so not most children with sen).
The reality is a lot of children with sen have far less choice of suitable schools than those without. My son's nearest is an hour from home.

tippz usually because that particular school can meet the child's needs, whereas more local ones couldn't - you do have to have actual reasons, not just because you fancy that school. For example there might be a unit attached to the school that specialises in the the child's condition.

Very well said @ChocolateWombat.

I agree with @woodhill too. I couldn't be arsed with pretending to live somewhere else to get a certain school place for my child, even if I was vindictive enough to shit over other people. I mean, it's surely going to come out eventually. Maybe people know this but don't care anyway, and hope that the school will take pity on the child if they have already been a the school 4-6 months or whatever.

Thanks for the explanations about the sens children. I wasn't being goady, I just genuinely wondered. I just assumed most schools would be able to cater for 'sens' children.

I am glad there's more balance in the responses now. Good luck with your decision op. Just to someone who scoffed at the idea someone who misses out on their local school could be allocated one 15 miles away. This is exactly how it happens in a school blackspot. You get allocated the nearest one with space. If the whole borough is oversubscribed that could be miles away. You don't get to trump people at nearer schools who may still be nearer than you

If a child has a ehcp you don't need to give a reason for a particular mainstream school although parents wouldn't be choosing it without a reason.

Just as a slight aside, it's children with SEN rather than 'sens' children. People aren't defined by their additional needs or disability.

As a parent who's kid is going to the town's worst schopl next year I understand why people lie. Id love to he able to pull some stunt that means I can finally relax anywhere dd is going.

But as a person I say report. If theybdisbt lie they have nothing to worry about do they. They will have all the proof of anything they will need and won't even know they have been reported if the first few checks pay off.

But on the off chance a kid who lives in catchment didn't get in and is being shipped miles away to a shitty school wh is parents may be crippling themselves financially to get them there.. ......

op

Have a look at your local council website ours enables you to see the admissions breakdown, how many for in under each category.. .

I could see 15miles happening here and not being overturned by an appeals panel. It's within a reasonable journey time by taxi so they'd just expect you to put your child in a taxi they pay for and get on with it.

It might be ridiculous in London because of how long it would take to travel 15miles.

Obviously I wouldn't pull a stunt though if bit he able to do it. Id not be in the situation im in now if I could

I couldn't do this, it wouldn't even occur to me. I'd assume they were there legitimately, possibly they were living in catchment at the time and moved, or the la allocated them there.

I couldn't be the person who got a child kicked out of schooL the parents may well be the people who deprived another child of a place in favour of their child. But I certainty would not wish to be the person who then had it taken off the child on some form of moral high ground. Especially if I had no dog in the fight and absolutely no information of what had occurred.

Would you report anonymously and hide your actions, or would you be happy to stand up and be counted for what you did, telling the school who you are, other parents it was you and is your moral superiority strong enough to tell the parents of the child that you will be reporting them in advance? Or does it only stretch to reporting them secretly?

For my money, the school has their address and know exactly where they live and you're going to look like some form of spiteful busybody.

But bluntness

It wouldn't be you who got the kid kicked out. It's ok the parents no one else of they lied.

If they since moved then the school would have their correct stress updated onto the records and they will have the paperwork to show the moving date.

Would you want to be the one who stood idly by and said nothing when for all you know some poor parent had to quit work as a result of their allocation or the only person able to pick up was sone disabled grandmother and it's all getting too much etc

Works both ways

I agree with everything Bluntness said.

If you decide to report it OP, do so publicly. Stand up for the courage of your convictions. But no you will not do that will you. Your motives have little to do with fairness and come across as vindictiveness and begrudgery.

I couldn't disagree more with Bluntness. And I also thoroughly disagree with Theycalledmethewildrose. Would you say someone reporting that they had seen someone stealing from a shop was acting out of vindictiveness and begrudgery? I hope not. So why apply a different standard when someone has stolen another child's school place?

It makes no difference whether or not the OP reports anonymously. The other family will never be told who reported them. And I'm with Gileswithachainsaw. It wouldn't be the person reporting who got the child kicked out. It is the fault of the parents who tried to defraud another child out of their place.

It is true the OP does not know for certain that this family has acted fraudulently. But all that will happen if the OP reports this is that the council will investigate. They will only take action if they find evidence of wrongdoing.

Another one saying to Report.

The council will investigate first. It's not like benefits, where a false accusation leads to months of hardship. (Which is a better analogy to the ridiculous Stasi comparison).

If the family did not cheat, no harm done.

Obviously all schools should provide a decent education. I also wish the UK would follow Scotland's example of true catchments. But that's another debate.

This is white-collar crime, on a neighbourhood scale, where a poorer child loses. It also undermines community.

Please report your suspicions.

It's not even a given the child will lose their place if the application is found to be fraudulent. They may decide to leave the child where they are and increase the class size to 31 by letting in the child who missed out.

prh47

Woukd it flag up on a secondary school application?

If the addresses used are different? As you have to put down your kids current school aswell.

I will say again, that if you have a strong suspicion that admissions fraud has taken place and you keep quiet, this is not a neutral act, but makes you complicit in it.

The admissions system requires community buy-in. Yes, the authorities have their systems of checks to try and prevent fraud, but they also actively encourage and need the community to be vigilant and to report any suspicions. This is to benefit the whole community and ensure a fair and transparent system. The more people who know fraud is happening and stay quiet - effectively collude in it - the more the system fails to protect those it is there to protect.

Remember, it is the children of the loss well off who lose through this fraud usually. It is the sharp elbowed who think ahead and cheat the system who are guilty of these fraudulent acts - who think that they can get their kids the best places and do t give a toss about others who actually meet the criteria.

People seem to take on a false sense of responsibility. If someone commits fraud and gets found out and faces the consequences, it is always the frausdster who is responsible for the outcome, not the person who reported the suspicion. People who say they can't report because it will be the fraudsters children, not the fraudster who loses out through being reported, we'll also think of the children of the people who should have had a place and were denied it - they too are losing out. And in the end we have to be responsible for our own children and take responsibility for the impact of our actions on our own children. People who cheat the system know they might get caught out....and if they are and their kids suffer being moved schools, those people need to know that they are responsible for it and no-one else.

When you have knowledge of fraud, there is no neutral option. You either report it or you keep quiet and are complicit.