to consider reporting this family for having lied to the school?

[mnbvcx445566]

Two parents and one child. They live nowhere near the primary state school they applied for and got into. I think - am pretty sure - they used a different address to the one they live at.
School very sought after. Shall I report them?

I've looked carefully into myself and this is what I think:

1- I am not jealous. If I had the chance to do the same I would not. I would like my child to go to a great state school so they are lucky for that but I would not play the way they did.

2- If I report them the child will have problems at school (? don't quite know what happens in those cases). The parents might have a breakdown or something having to face the backlash. Obviously they have brains and made their choice and would only pay the consequences of their actions but - I - would have precipitated the situation by reporting them. Maybe the system is so fucked anyway that what they did is not that big of a deal. Surely the school should have done 1000 checks before awarding places so there might be something I do not know. What I do know is that they live miles from that school, which has a very very small catchment area.

3- I should report them because if my child did not get into that school 'legally' I would despise people who took advantage of a loophole and took 'my child's place'.

WWYD?

I am a long-time poster/user but I have opened a different account as I do not want to be recognised. (If I do not want to face them and tell them that they are committing an illegal/immoral action does it mean that I am in the wrong thinking of calling the school anonymously?)

If they did commit fraud there's no reason they might not do it again using the alternate address . So basically having he best of both worlds and getting potentially 2 secondary schools the are "catchment" for and being able to choose which one is better.. .

Given there are usually less secondaries than primaries the consequences for the otger chikd are massive

ihate had her reasons

yes but they are not reasons that are taken into account when allocating school places.
Everybody could claim to have reasons for wanting their child to go to a particular school, but if they don't meet the allocation criteria those reasons are irrelevant.

As frustrating as it is, I'd assume unless I had incontrovertible proof that fraud had been committed, keep out of it. There are many, many reasons for a child being in a school away from their home address that the rest of their friends and parents at the school do not need to know about.

*LAC child (adopted or fostered)
*SEN named school
*Domestic violence
*Forces child
*Witness Protection

Are ones I can think of off the top of my head.

We are currently looking at moving home through necessity. We might move a good few miles from the dc's current school but the school might not change because we would be right on the extreme border of catchment area. Granted we are rural and catchment is much bigger but in a city I'd expect it's even more likely a child might not get a place at any of their chosen/catchment schools and be given a place elsewhere.

By how is a person meant to get proof.

Medical and adoption records are private for very obvious reasons.

There are entire teams dedicated to finding this stuff out.

But they won't know to do so unless people report suspicions

This case springs to mind.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1179968/Mother-facing-year-jail-trying-son-better-school.html

I mean I expect people reported me.

Funny how on allocation day people who bareky give you the time of day suddenly message you or accost you to fond out where you got and where you live as people in catchment didn't get in.

However when you look at the allocations it tells you how far down criteria people got in. You can see how many for each criteria were admitted.

You can also see that say in the first round all applicants were offered a space and whether there were places left.

So of someone did report me I wasn't told because my addresses matched up and I was within the distabce measurements given or under siblings.

If i was reported o don't care because I was honest. Those who didn't get on were obviously late or didn't submit evidence or missed some deadline etc

I certainly understand why people ask as if a mistake had been made then I would t want a place that wasn't mine

OK. My DDs are adopted. As adopted children are by law one of the priority categories, I could in theory pretty much have my pick of schools for them.

If I had chosen the 'best' school in the county which is around 10 miles away, people might think I had defrauded the system somehow to get the place. I would have no problem with people reporting their concern. Why? Because I know the LA would already have seen our 'proof' of priority. So they would look, say to themselves, 'oh teens DD is adopted that's fine' and do nothing more.

To all those saying not to report:

School places have to be allocated somehow. People should stick within the rules. And if you think there is fraud you should report it. It is not victimless.

If you saw a burglary in process you'd phone the police wouldn't you? Or would you 'pass by on the other side'? And that's only possessions. Yet you would let the 31st child who is entitled to be educated at a certain school miss out, because of some playground notion of 'grassing' or 'doesn't effect me'? first they came for the Socialists ...

My son couldn't go to our district school because of oversubscription, so we had two sons at two different schools for a year. When my son finally got in, I discovered that he had a friend that bussed in by two buses to get there and had lied about their address to get place and it just hadn't been checked. It was upsetting.

I agree that people should only report if they have strong suspicions. This does require having some knowledge of the person and their circumstances...but 100% knowledge isn't needed.

It isn't right to report suspicions about every single parent in the school ground who lives out of catchment or who has moved to a rented house or whatever. Councils cannot and should not be investigating huge numbers who have been reported as suspicious with no evidence to justify the reporting. There are already some measures in place to provide some checks and these will weed out a deter significant amounts of fraud. It is not the job of parents to be vigilantes and to be responsible for finding out about everyone in the playground - simply to report significant suspicions.

You cannot know for certain and it isn't necessary to have irrefutable proof to report a suspicion. I think it would be reasonable to report a suspicion if you believe :

• someone rented a property for the admissions date but kept their old property (either short term let out, or not) and has or intends to move back to the original address out of catchment.
• if they used the address of a friend or relative to apply but you know they live elsewhere
• if they own a property in the catchment but don't actually live there themselves.

Cast iron proof isn't required to report a suspicion, but a strong idea that one of these is the case is needed.

I think that in reality, no-one really reports without careful thought. It is something people weigh up and take seriously....and rightly so. People who report do usually have a strong suspicion which has grounds to it. Sometimes people talk themselves out of reporting...not because the evidence is lacking, but because they aren't sure they want involved. They find all kinds of ways to justify not reporting. However, if you are seriously considering it and believe you have grounds for your suspicions, it is best to report. It is then up to the council, not the reporter to decide. In this situation, you know you did the right thing - and that is all anyone can do. The council can find your suspicions are not supported - absolutely fine. They can find they are supported and take action.
However, if you don't report, there is no option for action to be taken. And that's why it's wrong not to act if you have information. Fraud affects others and councils need act against it and people need to know they will do this. Everyone has a potential role to play within this, which benefits us all.

The council would far rather they receive a few more suspicions that turn out to be groundless and manage to identify and deal with some cases of fraud, than no-one ever reported anything for fear of being wrong.

People who have got their school places legitimately have nothing to fear. They might not fit the standard geographical profile of a parent in the school. They might live outside the catchment but have a LAC or an SEN child which has gained priority. They may have moved in or out of the catchment within timeframes which are perfectly acceptable.
The council will be able to establish these things. They will be able to do this without accusing those suspicions have been raised about, of fraud and without unpleasantness. And guess what, as the parent of an adopted child said upthread, most of these parents will be fine about the checking and Infact pleased. They have nothing to hide. They appreciate the system is there to prevent fraud and are glad to know checks are in place to make it happen.

So don't think that reporting a suspicion results in a big chain of unpleasant activity for the family concerned. It really doesn't.....if they have nothing to hide!

In my part of the world, you can get your kid into a school which supposedly has a catchment area, from another country if they have been identified as really promising at sport.

I would report. If the parents got that place legitimately then their child will keep that place.

I'm guessing a lot of the checks can be done just sat at a desk. It could be as simple as

"I think the Smiths may have put a false address done on their application form. They actually live at address X"

Council checks and the Smiths did indeed put address X on the form (child got place for other reason). Well case closed, would the council even bother to tell the Smiths they had investigated them?

Surely if you report them and they are above board, they will be able to provide proof that they have done everything correctly and if they have lied or cheated then they will be deservedly found out. I don't see the problem.

Ihae

It was me that said I was disgusted by your actions and I stand by that.

Do you think that you are the only person in the world who needs help with childcare and cant afford to move? What makes your problems more important than those of families who live within catchment for that school who you have stolen a place from?

You are trying to justify the unjustifiable.

15 miles away. Right. All the parents lied? It's like a story from the dm grin

Yeah 15 miles away - to a school that was not already oversubscribed. We live in rural Wales... it's not uncommon .. what about you?

This latest fad did not affect my children. They went to the local school with their peer group - just as it should be. Bearing in mind I only have one of seven left in school now.

Time moves on... not always for the best.

I haven't reported her it's none of my business

Well maybe if you or your dc were affected by another persons selfishness you might reconsider??

Report.

If the application is legitimate that can easily be verified by the local authority, so no harm done.

If not legitimate then you have assisted the authority in identifying a fraudulent application.

That's ridiculous. A friend of mine won her appeal when her children were placed in schools three miles apart. She was a single parent and couldn't be in two places at once.

Well bully for your friend! Where I live there are no primary schools within 3 miles of each other. But don't let that sway your judgement 🙄

I still don't think the religious admissions criteria analogy stacks up. There are no thought-police to judge what level of scepticism is acceptable to meet the criterion of true believer. It more seems to be a system of bum on seat = priority for a school place which, absurd a system as it may be, means that you've legitimately paid for your place if you've been to church the requisite number of times. There's no lying involved, unless you consider it lying to attend church with an ulterior motive, which is a stance the church itself don't seem to adopt. Ime they're often trying to get people to attend with promises of free lunches and so forth. A vicar told me they adopt the approach that if they can get you through the door then you're pretty much on the path to enlightenment so it's all fair game. I don't know if all churches hold this view, but it seems to be a common approach.

I know someone whose child went to a school in similar circumstances as their parent was a police officer and had arrested a large proportion of the kids who would have been in their child's class on occasion! Thus she was allowed to go to a school a bit further afield to avoid awkwardness.

There may be a legitimate reason for their place.

If you do report then the authority can see whether there is.

They do not have to tell you the outcome of any report though so you may never know.

I hate the thought of reporting someone and looking like a malicious or vindictive gossip but would like it less if my (or any) child missed out on a place because someone lied
If a friend knew for definite something like this had happened and didn't tell me it would really hurt

Just to someone who scoffed at the idea someone who misses out on their local school could be allocated one 15 miles away. This is exactly how it happens in a school blackspot. You get allocated the nearest one with space. If the whole borough is oversubscribed that could be miles away. You don't get to trump people at nearer schools who may still be nearer than you

Exactly!! Not everyone lives in areas bursting at the seams with nearby schools. It seems some posters live in their own little bubble...

In London it wouldn't be 15 miles but it could easily the equivalent in terms of travel time. Our nearest school with space last year was 28 mins on public transport, in the wrong direction for work according to google. So a 2 hour round trip each day. I imagine there could easily be places where it's worse.