to consider reporting this family for having lied to the school?

[mnbvcx445566]

Two parents and one child. They live nowhere near the primary state school they applied for and got into. I think - am pretty sure - they used a different address to the one they live at.
School very sought after. Shall I report them?

I've looked carefully into myself and this is what I think:

1- I am not jealous. If I had the chance to do the same I would not. I would like my child to go to a great state school so they are lucky for that but I would not play the way they did.

2- If I report them the child will have problems at school (? don't quite know what happens in those cases). The parents might have a breakdown or something having to face the backlash. Obviously they have brains and made their choice and would only pay the consequences of their actions but - I - would have precipitated the situation by reporting them. Maybe the system is so fucked anyway that what they did is not that big of a deal. Surely the school should have done 1000 checks before awarding places so there might be something I do not know. What I do know is that they live miles from that school, which has a very very small catchment area.

3- I should report them because if my child did not get into that school 'legally' I would despise people who took advantage of a loophole and took 'my child's place'.

WWYD?

I am a long-time poster/user but I have opened a different account as I do not want to be recognised. (If I do not want to face them and tell them that they are committing an illegal/immoral action does it mean that I am in the wrong thinking of calling the school anonymously?)

The MYOB attitude is socially irresponsible. At what point in people behaving in anti social and discriminatory ways do people think it becomes their business, would murder even count?

I have just remembered the exact details of my experience 20 years ago. I was not given a place at the school half a mile away, I was top of the waiting list, my next door but one neighbour was tenth, such was the pressure on places. The Council were extremely helpful to me in providing information for my appeal, including the postcodes of all the children entering with sibling priority, four were from very affluent Central London postcodes. My daughter became one of 162 children in the borough without a school place. At the Appeal hearing parents were lined up with crutches and neck braces, in tears, it was like a war zone. Without a letter from my GP it turned out I had no chance and my child was fated to a bulge class in a portacabin in a distant unpopular faith school. When the Headmaster made a racist comment about my husband's Catholicism we realised that was not going to work. So I went back to work and we sent our child to a private school, 30% of children in our borough are educated privately, many as a result of similar experiences to ours. So nobody should have complained about the families who were buying places at our local school by renting then moving back?

Since then I have used my anger at the unfairness we experienced to campaign locally against the Council's education strategy. We have forced them into not just policing the admissions criteria but also expanding schools and providing more places. We have exposed the lie that each new black hole of provision is unexpected and a one off in the hope that parents will decide to MYOB and not mobilise to demand better provision. And in the end on the local pages of Mumsnet it was decided that parents would start their own Free School to meet the need for school places when the Council were failing to do so. It is now in its third year and very oversubscribed and providing places to parents who would otherwise have had to move, go private or travel long distances to access a school place.

Was that all being nosey? Should we not have tried to do something about the problem? Or were we being socially responsible?

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THE OP ISN'T SURE IT'S FRAUD

That is what the LA will investigate.

If the original family has got the place fairly there will be no consequences. The LA will do some checks, know it is all OK and take no action.

School place fraud is everyone's business. The 31st child could be being significantly disadvantaged by having missed a place. Why should a sharp elbowed fraudulent family have this place instead of the child to who it rightly belongs?

'people are starting to mock and disbelieve people, and accuse them of making stuff up, and are putting silly grinning smileys'

Well, ime and that of many friends, family and colleagues etc etc there's no way a dc would be allocated a place 15miles away. I think some people are getting a bit carried away with 'its a disgrace! I know someone who had to ...' So yes I will put a silly grinning smiley thanks

The LA will do some checks, know it is all OK and take no action.

Do people think LAs dont do these checks on application?

I am just stating what I believe happens in this world/our society), would you not want someone to point that out, if it benefits you? Why not doing it for others?

So, are you going to have the courage of your convictions, and report your suspicions?
(Having been in the position of having a child who lost out on a place at our nearest school, I'd report)

If they've got the place fairly because of circumstances you're unaware of, nothing will happen if you report them.
If they've committed fraud and their child loses the school place as a result, it's their own fault for lying and for stealing a school place from another child who actually qualifies for the school place.

You have nothing but a set of ill-founded suspicions. And likely a grudge against the family and/or a nasty antisocial streak which leads you to report those around you for what you perceive to be bending/breaking the law.

It's exactly what the Stasi looked for in their informers. Repressive states have used people like you throughout history to do their bidding. I'd say that's a very valid comparison.

Of course, in the not unlikely scenario that the family have done nothing illegal they'd experience considerable hassle and harassment on the basis of one curtain-twitcher's unfounded suspicions.

If that was you distressing my child that much through such an allegation and the subsequent investigation, I'd be making sure I seek extensive damages in a civil court for slander and libel. In which case this thread becomes evidence against you.

Jon Some LAs are better at checks than others. Areas well known for fraud tend to get more checks. If it's all legit there won't be any issue for the original family.

Or are you trying to claim that 100% of attempted fraud for places gets caught at the time of original application?

if it is a sought after over subscribed school then the la no doubt seek proof of address. my last home town it was an automatic check against council tax records. if this did not match then further proof was asked for.
additionally there are looked after children - definition has widened and those with a statementt.
none of this is your business.

Someone upthread said I disgusted them because I got my kids into a school 11 miles away to accommodate childcare arrangements.
If I didn't do this I couldn't work
I can't move as my home is in negative equity otherwise I'd move closer to my mum in a flash.
My mum doesn't drive and needs to walk to the school.
My kids do t miss out on play dates / parties, I drive them every time. I spend a huge amount of time in the car!
This isnt a choice, its necessary. Otherwise I'd have to give up work and claim benefits!
And no, I can't afford a child minder!

I overheard a woman as I was waiting to pick DC up last winter boasting that she was going to game the system by saying that her DM's address was hers to get into a local , massively oversubscribed outstanding secondary school.

Unfortunately for her I work in a role within said school that deals directly with admissions.

I interrupted her smug self proclamation to tell her that if I saw her DC's name on a list as seeking or gaining admission it would be my duty to report her and that I did not feel uncomfortable overhearing her conversation Walls Have Ears! She spluttered a bit, went quiet , attended the open evening and now her DC is at his catchment area comp(which y own DC both attend). I don't know if she applied for a place and it was not granted, or whether she decided not to but she certainly didn't apply claiming to live in catchment.

I did not feel one bit bad about letting her know that I thought what she was planning to do was dreadful.

Jeanvaljean27 you really are funny.

@tiggytape

I have not reported it because I have heard this information through my friend who is her sister. My son doesn't go to the school in question and I don't live in the area.

Not your circus, not your monkeys.

It's not the kid's fault but they'll be the ones who suffer any consequences

Thanks everyone, this thread has helped me understand what to do. I have got my answer.

Some quite robust comments here OP, hope you don't feel too battered! On balance I'd say don't bother. Believe me this is nothing. Wait till you see what people will do to get their children into the secondary school of their choice.

OP doesn't feel battered in anyway. You can see her personality in her answers.

I don't really think the reasons for reporting are altruistic at all.

It would be easier if all councils were as thorough as they could be when checking for fraud.

There seem to be huge differences between some of the London boroughs and some LAs where you'll only get caught if you're stupid enough to tell someone else about it.

I'd report them, whats the point of catchment areas existing if people can freely flout the rules without reprecusions. As mentioned if they're there because of one of the loopholes mentioned, then nothing will come of it.

People saying find evidence first, what is the OP, a secret agent? Report it, and the council will do their thing, it might be that the first thing noticed on their paperwork is that their address is outside of the catchment area, and then a note saying why they've been granted a space inspite of that, then the case is closed and the family will probably never have been aware of it.

Loved the reponse mentioning "grassing" btw, what are you who wrote that, 12 years old? Grow up.

Also bravo to the scumbag who admitted to doing exactly what the OP is talking about, and having the cheek to say she would mind her own business if she was the OP, well of course you would as you've already demostrated how loose your morals are, so it's nor surprising you would "turn a blind eye".

The comparisons with benefit fraud reporting and the actions the government take with that aren't comparable, they'll put a stop on benefits when they investigate that's how they chose to function, they won't kick a kid out of a school on a mere accusation of fraud, only afterwards they may end up doing that if found to be fraudulent after investigation. It isn't the same thing at all.

Also loving the stasi and George Orwell references, hyperbole through the roof this one is.

Rachie has hit the nail on the head.

rachie has hit it the nail on the head

Nah she hasn't.

@Biker47 has though!

Am with the OP fully on this.

I am finding the unpleasant accusations against the OP very rude and unnecessary, and it says a lot more about the people attacking her to be honest.

I have to laugh at the people saying she is nasty and mean spirited and 'obviously holds a grudge' against these people. Yet the people lying through their teeth in order to cheat the system and steal other childrens school places who are way more entitled to them, are doing nothing wrong! Mumsnet makes me PMSL sometimes. The level of dis-ingenuousness on this thread is terrifying.

And as for the 'grassing' comments, I agree with a previous posters that this word is laughable, and very childish. I would not hesitate in reporting ANYONE who I suspected of breaking the law, and/or cheating and lying to con the system. Guess that makes me a nasty, bitter, busy-body eh?

So be it.

On a slightly different note...

Genuine question, why would a child with sens (who lives 10 miles away from a certain school,) have more right to go to that school than a child without sens who lives 5 minutes walk away? Why are special concessions made for sens children, even if it means other children who grew up near that school, and whose friends are there, and who live 5 minutes walk away, have to go to a school potentially 8-10 miles away to make room for the 'sens' children? Why are these children not going to a school closer to them? Why does the needs of the 'sens' child trump every other child who doesn't have 'sens?'

And I am not being 'goady' I am genuinely puzzled as to why 'sens' children get priority over children who don't have it. Surely there must be someone in a school closer to their home, who can cater for their needs.