To pull my daughter out of tutoring?

[Chairmancow]

Another shitty weekend ruined by trying to get uncooperative Dd (9) to do her homework. She started tutoring for 11 plus 3 weeks ago and we've all had enough already!
She's not able or willing to independently get on with the piles of work she has to complete each week. Consequently we have to stand over her helping her and scolding her when she pisses about. Which Is frequently! We are so frustrated with it all. It's spoiling all our weekends. I've doubts about her ability to work quickly enough to pass it anyway.
Should we quit or keep on?
The comps round here are dire, obviously if they were any good I would never have started all this.
Dh doesn't deal with stress well (mental health problems) and I think we're both feeling under a lot of pressure to not to let her do badly at school.
Advice please!

Bond do how to books for the vr and nvr. Searchable on amazon I think (think that's how I saw them anyhow!)

Yup Bond VR/NVR 11+ how to do.

Check which area you're in though. (CEM or GM tests)

Bond also have online resources, for tech savvy kids this might be a more 'fun' way to work. My DD's tutor has supplied log ins for this to help with practice. It's set out in topic areas, sets of 10 questions, then it shows you how you could have worked it out. DD has used these quite happily.

It's CEM here I think. She would have to sit two tests for two separate areas to have a chance at all the local grammars.
Apparently one of them is maths, VR and English. The other includes NVR.
I might get that book.
At work today two of my colleagues (very intelligent) spent about 30 mins trying to crack the codes on these VR questions. They really struggled with it! I had long since given up.
It seems a tall order for a 10 year old.

Can you post an example?
It is really learning the trick. Not obvious, but once you know the trick, OK.

But in CEM they don't use a lot of codes. Get the VR book by CPG books. That has the CEM formatt in it

I'll admit some of the 11+ maths has had me stumped! Even when I had the answers..

Beamur That's what I'm afraid of! It's just as well it's not me taking it!
Thanks everyone for the suggestions of books, I'll have a look.

It is really learning the trick. Not obvious, but once you know the trick, OK

yes ^^ as said earlier if I can get the hang of it - anyone can. Its like cross words or word searches, to begin with your slow but once your brain gets trained in that way your away.

Which is why tutored DC have that lead as they will slice through it with so much practise...and leave more time to work harder stuff out. just train the brain,

www.amazon.co.uk/Verbal-Reasoning-Study-Parents-Guide/dp/1847621619/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1506412975&sr=8-2-fkmr0&keywords=how+to+verbal+reasoning+11%2B&tag=mumsnetforum-21

maybe something like this ^

"t covers a wide range of CEM-style topics to provide students with the most effective preparation possible. There are step-by-step methods for answering questions quickly and accurately, plus round-up questions at the end of each topic (with answers). A pull-out Benchmark Test is included to help identify the level children are working at, along with a detailed Parents’ Guide packed with useful advice"

www.amazon.co.uk/Non-Verbal-Reasoning-Study-Parents-Guide/dp/1847625657/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=X8Y2VA2FPJRJ575D978K&tag=mumsnetforum-21

There are loads of them, yes i think a quick glance would help you help her . Also get age appropriate books for her to practise with or even younger to build up her confidence, it was in fact watching dd do these - with ease that actually taught me how to do them!

VR & NVR tests simply require you to learn the formulae to answer those types of questions. Once you have them it's fairly straightforward.

Yes, once you know how to do them it's a lot about speed. Having somebody- parent or tutor- who can teach you how to do them is crucial.

BertrandRussell, yes. You've reminded me that my brothers and I all sat the 11+. My school had practise papers for months - felt like every day but probably 1 or 2 a week. My brother's school didn't, but my elder brother's class did one, and also had a teacher explain the questions to them. My younger brother went into the exam a complete 11+ virgin.

So big brother and I passed easily while younger bro failed. By that time the 11+ was unnecesary as our erstwhile grammars had become comps

FWIW, and I'll no doubt flamed, I think tutoring for 11+ can have a very negative effect. It's designed as an aptitude test, pure and simple. If a child has no problem with the test they're fully capable of the higher papers and so on ahead in a Grammar. If they would have failed without a tutor you are effectively putting them in a situation they may really struggle in and which can harm their self esteem. That's not even mention the kids that will have this extra tutoring and still fail, why damage their confidence like that? Why not let them sit it as an aptitude test as it was intended. They can always take the 13+ if their score was very close. I went to a Grammar (and now work there 20+ years later) so please don't take this to be an anti-selective schools comment or etc. I just feel it completely undermines the point of the 11+ and it's so sad seeing kids asked to leave because they're out of their depth. By 15-18 the gap sometimes closes, meaning that they end up at the same universities as the friends that stayed at grammar and can often leave with better degree classifications then those friends. A kid that feels they aren't smart enough even with tuition and that they're disappointing will suffer far more than one that goes to a comprehensive.

"Why not let them sit it as an aptitude test as it was intended. They can always take the 13+ if their score was very close."

Because it is not an aptitude test and there is no 13+ In most places. Apart from that, brilliant idea.

Bertrand my dd didn't need any help, I did infact she showed me how to do it.

Some dc are capable of doing it themselves but they do need an adult to buy the books to practise or school to step into that breech and help. I stopped helping dd do hw years ago she is just 10.

Whilst private schools exist I think it's crucial to keep grammars otherwise your asking for a clearly divided society.

"Whilst private schools exist I think it's crucial to keep grammars otherwise your asking for a clearly divided society."

Excuse me? You don't think grammar schools divide society? Blimey!

My mum used to get so angry and frustrated and scream at me when I didn’t want to do my homework .... I didn’t want to do it because I didn’t understand it. Now I’m riddled with fear of not getting things right first time.
Are you sure she’s not just unsure what to do or thinks she can’t do it?

Ninon except you have no idea anymore what is in the exam. There are no published papers.With the CEM my dc hadn't come across much of it.

You also need to be able to actually do these questions at speed i.e. be very competent at working things out quickly,excellent vocabulary etc.80 questions in 45 minutes.

And as I said my dc couldn't do non vr. No amount of tutoring would have helped.

FWIW, and I'll no doubt flamed, I think tutoring for 11+ can have a very negative effect. It's designed as an aptitude test, pure and simple. If a child has no problem with the test they're fully capable of the higher papers and so on ahead in a Grammar.

You may work in a grammar school but you seem very naive about how things are nowadays. It would be great if there was some way of banning tutoring or making the test tutor/practice proof but that isn't possible so in most grammar school areas almost all children are either being tutored or doing practice papers. In my area even children on PP get some tuition (provided free by one of the grammar schools). Therefore even the most academic children need to do this too just to level the playing field. It is not true at all that those who are tutored struggle when they get in as most are tutored and the majority do not struggle.

OP 11 plus coaching takes a lot of parental involvement. If you’re serious about this for her then take on more of a tiger parent role.

You're never going to know what's in the exam but there are certain patterns to VR & NVR tests, and the same type of questions come up. There are loads of books with sample questions.

Like anything, you get better and faster with practice.

CEM assesses verbal ability using comprehension,vocabulary and VR alongside numerical reading and non VR.

It isn't just a few rote VR and non VR exercises.