To pull my daughter out of tutoring?

[Chairmancow]

Another shitty weekend ruined by trying to get uncooperative Dd (9) to do her homework. She started tutoring for 11 plus 3 weeks ago and we've all had enough already!
She's not able or willing to independently get on with the piles of work she has to complete each week. Consequently we have to stand over her helping her and scolding her when she pisses about. Which Is frequently! We are so frustrated with it all. It's spoiling all our weekends. I've doubts about her ability to work quickly enough to pass it anyway.
Should we quit or keep on?
The comps round here are dire, obviously if they were any good I would never have started all this.
Dh doesn't deal with stress well (mental health problems) and I think we're both feeling under a lot of pressure to not to let her do badly at school.
Advice please!

And, yes, you need to shell out for 1:1 tuition. Do not bother with anything else.

If she's finding it hard then stop.

There should be challenge, yes. There should be things she's learning, yes (schools don't teach reasoning for a start)

But if it's that hard now, she'll struggle to pass and she'd struggle if she got in.

Does her school think she's actually capable? That's the first question I'd ask (even if they're ideologically opposed)

Sorry but I think it's a myth that tutored kids struggle once there. Looking at my dc's friends most of all incomes including those on very low incomes have had something. Mine did and certainly don't struggle,ditto their mates.

Frankly I think tutoring can be a waste of time. My dd couldn't do nonVR to save her life right up to the night before. She did very well as there is enough in the CEM to gain marks elsewhere. VR and comprehension she was naturally very good at.

I think a good primary has more of an impact but nobody cares re the bunfight for the best primary places. When my oldest dc did it we had to tutor just to cover what other primaries did. Kind of gauling others got it for free.

My 3 were in groups of 6, all got in. Paid £16 an hour for Jan onwards of year 5. Dd found CEM far easier than anything set by the tutor.

And, yes, you need to shell out for 1:1 tuition. Do not bother with anything else.

That is rubbish. I live in an area with very selective grammars and the pupils who do group tuition (including my own) are just as likely to be successful as those who do 1:1. It depends on the child but my children much preferred learning with other children.

"But if it's that hard now, she'll struggle to pass and she'd struggle if she got in."

I really don't agree. The 11+ tests nothing but the ability to pass the 11+.

I really don't agree. The 11+ tests nothing but the ability to pass the 11+.

If that was the case the grammar schools wouldn't also get very high GCSE grades.

I really don't agree. The 11+ tests nothing but the ability to pass the 11+.

Nonsense. The 11+ separates those bright enough for grammar school from those who aren't. If a child can't pass the 11+ without a shitload of tutoring and cajoling, how do you think that child will be able to cope with the demands of grammar once they get there? They won't.

"If that was the case the grammar schools wouldn't also get very high GCSE grades."

Any group of kids with middle class generally prosperous supportive parents who are told that they are clever will mostly get very high GCSE grades.

I am so glad I do not live in a grammar school area.

Used to work in a selective. Within an hour of teaching a group, you knew which ones had been tutored to within an inch of their lives to get in.

Even worse, the kids knew it too.

"But if it's that hard now, she'll struggle to pass and she'd struggle if she got in."

She will be two years older when she starts secondary school. Children change substantially over the period of two years. Even over periods of months I have seen children who are struggling with something just click and zoom ahead. Looking at the schools helps to decide whether the grammar is somewhere she wants to go. Working on English and Maths (depending on what is in the 11+) is work that will not be wasted. In six months when she realises that lots of friends are wanting to go to grammar school she would still have time to work on the NVR and VR, or she has worked hard is in a good position for SATs and secondary setting tests and she doesn't have to sit the 11plus if she doesn't want to.

Any group of kids with middle class generally prosperous supportive parents who are told that they are clever will mostly get very high GCSE grades.

Rubbish. Whilst the children of middle-class supportive parents certainly do better than other children on average they don't all do very well as is usually the case at grammar schools. The comprehensive school by me has a much higher proportion of middle-class children vs. the grammar school that my children go to but the GCSE grades aren't anywhere near as high on average. You only have to look at the league table of the top 100 secondary schools to see that nearly all are grammar or selective private. That is because the tests are actually pretty good at selecting more academic children.

You need to change the tutor OP. He sounds crap.

"The comprehensive school by me has a much higher proportion of middle-class children vs. the grammar school that my children go"

How do you know that? And if you have grammar schools then of course the grammar school does better than the other school. By definition.

£100 is ridiculous. We paid £35/week for 90 mins in a group of 4 in a super selective area. DD offered places at all the schools she sat exams for, is at her first choice and doing brilliantly. I really don't agree that long term tutoring means they won't handle the work, dd's primary was never going to get her to the level needed to pass & now she's at 2ndry there are some big gaps in her learning despite being in top groups at primary. I'd find a tutor that can engage her properly.

"That is because the tests are actually pretty good at selecting more academic children."

Just a coincidence that the more academic children come from supportive, privileged middle class families then?

How do you know that? And if you have grammar schools then of course the grammar school does better than the other school. By definition.

I know that the comprehensive has more middle class children than the grammar because it has a very small catchment area and all of the houses in that catchment are expensive. In contrast, many of my children's classmates at the grammar school come from much less well off areas.

Just a coincidence that the more academic children come from supportive, privileged middle class families then?

I'm not sure what your point is. You said that the 11+ selects nothing apart from the ability to pass the 11+. That is not the case as it also selects children who are likely to succeed academically in the future.

I’ve not read the full thread. Tutoring aside with a family history of mental health concerns I’d be very concerned that pushing her might trigger her to develop problems as well.
I’ll now go back to page 2...

I don't think my dd would have coped with this. She went to the bog standard comp down the road. Did really well, went to the grammar for 6th form. She's just started at a good university

"I know that the comprehensive has more middle class children than the grammar because it has a very small catchment area and all of the houses in that catchment are expensive. In contrast, many of my children's classmates at the grammar school come from much less well off areas."

So where do all the other children go? And what are the PP %ages at the grammar and the high/secondary modern school?

Honestly, I passed my 12+ without too much difficulty, but I was at the bottom of the class for most subjects and found it absolutely soul destroying. It really ruined my confidence. It worked out fine on paper (all A* - B at GCSE and AAB at a-level) but it made me so miserable. I'm really torn on this issue - it did help me get into a good uni, but once I was out working I was working with people that went to far "worse" universities and there was no perceived difference between us (a colleague had a first from a course that had entry requirements of DDD, and my boss thought that was more impressive than a 2:1 from a top 5 uni, for example). I'm not sure that the negative experience for 8 years was worth it. Personally I won't be putting my kids up for the 12+ unless they are really far ahead - no tutoring to get them there as they would never keep up and be happy IMO

So where do all the other children go?

What other children? I am comparing the children at my nearest comprehensive with the children at the grammar school my children go to. Obviously children who live in other areas go to different school.

And what are the PP %ages at the grammar and the high/secondary modern school?

It is a comprehensive, not a secondary modern (not everyone takes the 11+ in my area) and the % on PP at the comprehensive is much lower than the national average.

Argh! My son is in year 6 and sits the dreaded test in two weeks. We haven't tutored. Since the start of the summer hols he has sat one test a week at home. It worked with his older brother who loved the tests, sailed through and is now in top sets for everything at the grammar. I was very against tutoring. Now I'm not so sure. Our youngest hasn't really improved, is only scoring about 50% on the maths papers and is feeling the stress. We are lucky that the nearest comp is good and I know that he will do well there. I feel that his emotional intelligence is higher than his brothers and that he will do well in life, but I hate that he will feel a failure if he doesn't get into the grammar. I kind of wish we'd started earlier and done more for him. Who knows though? We don't have crystal balls. I don't know why I've written this really. I don't know whether I'd advise you to plough on or leave her be or move!