To pull my daughter out of tutoring?

[Chairmancow]

Another shitty weekend ruined by trying to get uncooperative Dd (9) to do her homework. She started tutoring for 11 plus 3 weeks ago and we've all had enough already!
She's not able or willing to independently get on with the piles of work she has to complete each week. Consequently we have to stand over her helping her and scolding her when she pisses about. Which Is frequently! We are so frustrated with it all. It's spoiling all our weekends. I've doubts about her ability to work quickly enough to pass it anyway.
Should we quit or keep on?
The comps round here are dire, obviously if they were any good I would never have started all this.
Dh doesn't deal with stress well (mental health problems) and I think we're both feeling under a lot of pressure to not to let her do badly at school.
Advice please!

Knock it on the head or find a (very) different tutor.

Look round the comps. It's application season for Y6s at the moment so there may well be some open days etc.

It does sound as if it isn't a great tutor match. The issue also is though that in a roughly 25% grammar area you can expect up to half the class to be having tutoring. Even if you aren't aiming for or too bothered about a grammar place, if your dc is say 10th out of 30 in Maths at the beginning of yr5 and has no extra tutoring then if 11-16th out of 30 dc are all doing extra maths every week (either with a tutor or a parent), by the end of yr5 your child who was happily 10th in the class has slipped to 16th. In an area with lots of tutoring a divide will emerge between those who are tutored and not tutored. In your position (if my dc had visited, liked and wanted to go to the grammar school) I would either work on English and Maths together at home or get a tutor. At Easter re-evaluate the situation and decide then whether to add verbal/ non-verbal or whatever else is required into the mix. That way she keeps up in class, develops solid skills before SATs and secondary school, whilst keeping the option open for grammar school yet not becoming obsessed with it. There will probably be crash courses/mocks etc nearer to the exam which you can sign up for if you want to get her to develop exam technique.

urgh. our education system is totally screwed.

Also when looking at the results don't forget how much the comp ones are affected by losing a % to the GS. They will rarely get the same results as those in non-GS areas but that doesn't mean that your child can't do well. For example in our local school the %s are not that impressive but quite a few do triple science and get As and Bs, on a lot less homework than the more academic school up the road.

“He even quoted the local comps GCSE results at me to put the pressure on us even more.”

It isn’t very representative though. If you compare the results to comprehensive schools in non grammar areas they are bound to look bad. DD’s school’s 80% GCSE pass rate is because it is a true comprehensive school with children of all abilities, including the top 20 – 25% who would be creamed off to grammar schools if we were in a grammar school area.

Oh and the days of just turning up on the day are over for most children. That's what I did and I was fine, now loads of children are tutored - from as young as (or probably younger than) yr2, not just one or two about a fifth of the class - in yr 2!! These are top half of the class children not for dyslexia etc. It is the way it is in some areas. That much tutoring means that others will be edged out of the top 25% who would otherwise pass. Only OP has an idea how much tutoring goes on locally and where her child 'naturally' falls in the class.

Presumably if you pull her out, the tutor will get less money? Bear that in mind.

We knew a young persons counsellor when dd was in primary, who told us that most of her clients were children at the very selective generally-3rd-or-4th-in-the-league-tables grammar suffering from stress and demoralisation as they were so pushed to achieve. As a result we were relieved when dd decided she didn't want to go there so we didn't have to worry.

It sounds to me as though your dd doesn't really want to go. There's time for her to change her mind, of course, but meanwhile I'd woy more about putting her off education altogether.

If she does decide she'd lke toty for it, give her a few practice papers for NVR, as that can be v confusing when seen for the first time, and if necessary get her a maths tutor who will just go over what they do at school to ensure she understands it, but doesn't set masses of homework. If she turns out to be keen, then they can teach her more algebra/geometry and have her ready to star at a comp, or understand with confidence at the grammar.

They have enough on their plates at her age.

Op maybe do it yourself? How does her brain work? I got 11+cards and mine does well when motivated for say computer time.... Do twenty words, she looks at the cards and tries to remember... I then call then out to her, and she remember most of the synm and atoms and we are done... Ten mins every so often. Depend on how her brain works..

Sounds awful right now, does she know why she is doing it, can you show her schools, jobs etc find a way to either work differently or or motivate her

OP, this tutor sounds awful.

My DS is Yr5 and has just started his 11+ tutoring. We have one hour per week, term time only. She then sets him one exercise for homework which takes him 15 min as he finds it fairly straight forward. Plus he does spellings and times tables etc at school anyway. I put no extra pressure on him and I go through his homework with him once he's had a go. It is really just for exam technique.

An hour or more of 11+ homework a week? That sounds pretty miserable to me. I've been a grammar school pupil and a teacher at several different grammars. It honestly sounds like your daughter does not want to do this. I would take her to visit the local schools and grammar. She might decide she does want to try for the grammar and get on board. Or not! It sounds like she does not have the ability for grammar at the moment to be honest.

I'm keen to continue the paired reading we've been doing so she can start reading some more challenging books. She really enjoys the one to one time with me. Also the vocabulary work is fine to carry on with. It's really the maths that she struggles with and I very much doubt she will ever work with enough speed and confidence to pass the 11 plus.
It's such a shame as I think she would enjoy grammar but it's just the getting her in that's going to be hard!

I have been through this! Horrible weekends, arguing, etc.

In our case we didn't have the option of a grammar but had to do 11+ for some independent schools.

Was it worth it? Yes. But like you I had to sit there a lot of the time, bribing, cajoling.

If she finds it all too hard and can't do it, why do you think she's going to do well in a grammar school? Isn't she just going to fall behind?

The comps may not be as bad as you think. But meanwhile I should find a lovely tutor for 1 hour a week, who makes it fun and no homework, to show her that learning can be enjoyable again.
You're onto a loser battling homework. She'll hate it, you'll hate it and you will all give up. At least this way you can give it another shot and she may surprise you.

Life isn’t all about academic achievement.
I went to a grammar school - it quickly became apparent which kids had had tutoring to get in; they could not cope. At all. Imagine how that must have felt for them?
And as for me, I learnt that I was only worth something for as long as I was ‘achieving’.
Don’t live vicariously through her. Don’t try and compensate for your past. Found out what she loves and foster that passion.

The tutor sounds horrendous - your poor dd.

Is there any possibility of moving to a comp area?

It sounds like the tutor is awful and a big time money maker....

Op, there are many ways to skin a cat. My dd has been doing the age appropriate books for three years, she didn't know why, but I never said.... She wanted more computers time in summer or other holidays so I said..

Do two pages etc. She reads so much naturally. No need at all to push her, and she has been blessed with innate spelling abilities.... Not from mum I can tell you her spelling age is 14
... You need to find a way around this or Hook to motive her. Banging away is simply awful.

I totally agree with altwoo and I am very pro grammar and pro choice. She can also get in later can't she

I'm a teacher and have tutored for the 11+ and can tell you that any tutor who doesn't care that their pupils hate their classes and are in tears over the work is a crap tutor. He should be making the work fit the child, not the other way round, and certainly not blaming the parents for not doing his job for him!

The whole thing sounds like a reverse from the nine year old. Save her the misery. Piles of work? Fuck that.

Hi OP, we were in the same situation as you a few months ago. DS (9) started tutoring for the 11+ and had a similar amount of homework to your DD. It was hard going and a steep learning curve for all of us for a few weeks. In my experience the majority of the work is done at home to reinforce what they learn during the session. My DS was really slow and complained a lot about the homework at the beginning too, but he's got used to the format of the work and is much quicker and complains a lot less now. We also had to literally stand over him at the beginning to make sure he did his work.

He still has the odd moan but the way I see it, half an hour three or four days a week of tutoring homework is a lot more beneficial than the tv or PlayStation. He gets rewards for effort (big days out, more so than we would do ordinarily, things like that) which he loves, but he knows that we expect him to work hard for those rewards.

He doesn't like sitting alone to do his work so I usually potter around upstairs so he knows I'm there.

I would suggest giving your DD as much support as she needs during the first few weeks (I think it took us around 4 weeks before we noticed DS getting quicker at his work) and gradually withdrawing your help.

I still have to manage DS' work i.e. tell him which piece of work to do each day and I always look through it first so that I can help him work things out if he's stuck without actually giving him the answers if you see what I mean.

The tutoring is a big commitment from all sides and if I were you I'd give it a few more weeks before making a decision about whether to stop.

I'm so glad we persevered with DS. I'm really not sure whether he'll pass - he's a bright kid and he's certainly got the potential but you just never know. The way I see it, knowledge is something that no one can take away from him and I can see how the extra work is helping him generally.

People have very strong opinions about 11+ tutoring but each to their own. I would really struggle to know what resources I needed to help DS prep for the 11+. The tutoring takes care of all of that but there is still a massive commitment from the parents to manage the homework.

Sorry - it's turned into a bit of an essay! x

There's a lot of crap talked about the ability required to get into a normal top 25% grammar. Your DD doesn't have to be exceptionally gifted in every area - for an SS in London perhaps but not a normal grammar.

If the alternatives are shite I'd throw everything I'd got at it. Yes it'll mean nagging, cajoling, bribing. Endless drudgery but man will it be worth it. And if my experience is anything to go by, your DD won't be scraping along at the bottom of the class at a grammar. In our case, our DD desperately wanted to go to the grammar, we helped it become a reality and now she's there she's doing brilliantly.

I'd get a new tutor - this one obviously isn't working for her.

Can you move to an area with better local schools?

This thread has really put me off of grammar schools...