so Brexiteers, are you happy to be paying £10 BILLION a YEAR to the EU now?

[ssd]

good grief, thought this was about saving money??

oh and the sovereignty, of course

One valid concern is whether there will be a hard border between the ROI and Northern Ireland. If yes, how are they going to manage it? And if no, how are they going to stop those pesky immigrants getting in? Luckily it's not my problem, but I do think it's going to be an almighty screw up. That's not a loan, just an observation. Look forward to a Leaver explain how it's all going to work.

Moan, not loan!

I think some onthis thread need to seriously grow up a bit. Do you really think flinging insults at eachother is going to solve anything? It's done and has been voted to leave, deal with it and find a way to cope. By all means have a debate on the subject talk and ask about each sides fears etc, try and explain your points rationally and with reason. Otherwise you may as well be talking to a three year old with all the huffing and shit slinging going on. Talk, don't resort to petty insults fgs!

whether there will be a hard border between the ROI and Northern Ireland

Here's a radical thought, how about we dont have a border between them.

Why not leave it for now and see if its an issue after Brexit. They already have a common travel area, maybe we will have very similar taxes and it just wont be an issue. Let sleeping dogs lie.

I take it you're not living in Ireland Userwhocould?

I voted Leave, Faith has already articulated most of my sentiments, negotiations take time and there is an awful lot of things that require negotiating in order to reach a final agreement. As one of the largest nett contributors to the EU's coffers, of course the Eurocrats are upset we're leaving and will try and get as much £s as they can. And we need to stick to the financial obligations for 'Projects' that we have already signed/committed to.

With regards to ROI/NI Border - that is a difficult situation - but prior to the Referendum the EU had raised objections to the 'special arrangements' between the ROI and UK as 'unfair' on other EU nationals. So difficulties were going to arise anyway. The 'special arrangements' between the ROI and UK pre-dated the EU.

I take it you're not living in Ireland Userwhocould?

and your actual point is?

Moody’s knocks UK’s rating down again

www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/22/britains-credit-rating-downgraded-over-brexit-and-state-of-public-finances

and your actual point is

How would your 'no border' policy work with goods that have been imported into Ireland (it being a EU country) and then sold / sent to the UK?

How would it work with EU immigrants who come and work in Ireland / travel to Ireland and then go over the border to NI?

I see you dont want to answer my question user.

The country voted to leave. The UK is leaving. Let's work together to get the best for the country. Let's show some patriotism and support the efforts of the civil servants to get the best.

You must be sorely disappointed with May then. She's just put back the leaving date by two years. Tsk, tsk, not patriotic enough. Only Leavers are patriotic it seems.

No the country did not vote to leave. The country can't vote. It's a country.
Some of the people voted who live in the country voted leave. As it happened some people from the commonwealth who are temporarily voted leave. As it happens some people also voted to stay in the EU. Some people who live here permanently as an EU citizen and are making their lives here weren't allowed to vote.
Brexit is a mess. It isn't likely to get better or improve and people not being honest about it being a mess or pretending is not being patriotic.

I am not disappointed in May and I am not disappointed that the leave date has been pushed back. It is a difficult process. There will be twists and turns. The negotiations will be complex and hard. If I voted leave, I wouldn't be disappointed. I'd only be disappointed if the vote to leave was undermined. I would be disappointed if there was no process for leaving. The process has started and as long as it is done in a timely manner, that should be okay.

My point about patriotism is not whether one voted leave or remain. I voted remain. The point is that, what is there was a democratic process. Leave won the vote. Patriotism requires that we now all ensure the best for the country is achieve from this outcome. Why would you wish for Theresa May to fail or for us to get a bad deal? Going forward we should all want what's best for the country. Talking the country down, insulting others, wishing for the worse, and wilfully placing obstacles in the government's way is unpatriotic.

The country voted to leave. Playing with words and getting silly about it is a waste of time.

So should the 52% leave the UK or leave the EU but keep UK citizenship? How exactly does your concept work?

The country voted to leave. It is leaving. I voted to remain but if ever the decision of the majority was overturned, I would be out there with them in full force to revolt. Democracy must NEVER be undermined. We would become no better than the despot that rule Venezuela, Zimbabwe, and other parts. We would lose our reputation as a beacon of democracy. I'm not prepared to sacrifice democracy for the sake of staying in a union that we all know (leave or remain) has massive problems.

Leave narrowly won in an advisory Referendum. Pretending it was anything other than advisory is just as undemocratic. If our MPs were doing their jobs properly they would have been pressing for proper studies as to the best options to follow.

We've lost our reputation as a beacon of democracy with Theresa May trying to bypass our Parliamentary democracy and having to be taken to court to make sure that Parliamentary democracy is enforced.

Why would you wish for Theresa May to fail or for us to get a bad deal? Going forward we should all want what's best for the country. Talking the country down, insulting others, wishing for the worse, and wilfully placing obstacles in the government's way is unpatriotic

Insulting people isn't unpatriotic, talking the country down isn't being unpatriotic

As to the rest i dont think anyone has done any of those

The government doesn't need anyone else to put obstacles in their way - they are doing it all by themselves. As has been said about May's speech - we have heard a lot about what's not wanted, but not much about what is wanted - other than a "deep and special relationship".Which is as empty as Brexit means Brexit, or a red, white and blue brexit, their being no red in the Scots saltire and no blue in the Red dragon.

there, not their, sorry.

Democracy must NEVER be undermined

Are people allowed to reflect on their decision in a democracy?

Or should it be done and dusted?

What sort of democracy are we talking about? Parliamentary democracy? It doesn't seem like it with May's Government. Not only did they have to be taken to court to make sure that Parliament was involved in the A50 legislation, the courts have also ruled that they have to be involved in May's bung to the DUP.

We could run the country by Referenda as our normal way of doing business, but I have seen no plans to bring this in as a matter of course, so I am baffled as to why the results of this one Referendum are apparently cast in stone for all time. I'm also baffled as to why 52% of those voting appears to translate to 'All' in Theresa May's mind.

Does anyone know how much it will cost to upgrade our customs facilities and ports in preparation for our departure from the customs union . I presume the government have already have the figures ?

www.cnbc.com/2017/09/15/reuters-america-rpt-uk-customs-model-unlikely-to-achieve-frictionless-post-brexit-trade.html

Hope this link works .

I have asked this before , but not had an answer so will ask again . We are now in a position where a minister can amend law without parliament . Does anyone know how or with how much notice a minister would have to give , if any, that they were doing so ? Also would people be equally happy if the same power was in the hands of another party other than the Conservatives ?

Let's work together to get the best for the country.

What would you like us to do?

Let's show some patriotism

What do you mean?

support the efforts of the civil servants to get the best.

The civil servants who think its a load of crap, yes? How would you like us to support their efforts?