about those on the autistic spectrum in mainstream schools?

[OverbearingHouseSitter]

Basically I've read so many threads recently about those on the autistic spectrum being completely let down by teachers and senior staff in schools.

I mean punishing those on the autistic spectrum in incidents when it is entirely inappropriate, and the lack of understanding of some teachers that you cannot use the same behaviour strategies on some children who require a different approach due to SEN.

And then there are times when punishment should not be given at all, such as when a child who is on the autistic spectrum behaving in a way that the teacher doesn't like, yet the teacher not seeming to realise that this behaviour is part of their SEN!

My mother was a teacher and I realise how hard being a teacher is. She got signed off sick with stress... it's a bloody hard job. But AIBU to think that some teachers and school staff- NOT all- seem to be consistently failing those on the autistic spectrum and those with other SEN, whatever these may be?

This is not just from this forum either! There have been instances from people I know I've heard about and with friends kids.

For example, a friends child was recently punished as he did not understand something the teacher said, ie, it was some form of light sarcasm the teacher used, friends DS with SEN did not register this, did what the teacher told the pupils sarcastically not to do and was then mortified and confused when the teacher punished him.

So AIBU?

I also apologise if I have used an language around people with special needs that you do not like/prefer not to use. My friend prefers the term "on the autistic spectrum" opposed to "autistic child" but if I have said anything wrong please tell me!

I made my posts in order to object to the claim that children with any degree of SEN are served better in Specialist provision and that Mainstream cannot cope with SEN or adequately make provision.

I think what people are saying generally is that, laudable though the ideal of inclusion is, in practice many mainstream schools are indeed struggling to make good provision. It can work very well, as is your experience, but not in every case. That can be down to the individual child's specific needs or it can be down to failures of the school or both.

Too often decrying the demise of Specialist Schools betrays a mindset which does not want to make any efforts towards being inclusive.

I've never come across that and it seems a bit of a non sequitur. The people I know who have lamented specialist schools are those who really needed them and couldn't access them.

Mainstream schools make huge efforts to be inclusive, and not just with SEN. It's just that, unfortunately, in some cases it's not working as well as it could.

OF COURSE I understand that an autistic kid will usually freak out with someone they don't know etc etc, and I don't conclude from 1 day what should happen to him, I was using it as an example of what educators have to contend with week in week out.

. Sorry to burst your understanding of Autism. But my DS has a diagnosis of ASD & ADHD. He doesn't freak out when he meets new people. He forms immediate strong attachments with many people. If he doesn't like you. He'll let you know. If he does. He'll do what he did with his Camhs worker. Run up and hug them on the first day of meeting them and be absolutely inconsolable on the last session at the fact they're not going to see X again.

That phrase 'if you've met one child with autism you've met one child with autism' had never been more appropriate.

My conclusion, unpopular though it may be, is that the interests of kids with SEN was generally better served in Special schools and that the kids themselves seemed much happier because the expectations were realistic, both educationally and behaviourally.

It's not unpopular. It's wrong, and damaging. Children with ASD are generally much happier when they are being supported. It is entirely possible for mainstream schools to do this.

I've never come across that

I have. Numerous times.

Mainstream schools make huge efforts to be inclusive, and not just with SEN.

I have experienced and observed the opposite.

Ds is very good with meeting new people. What he also is is a very good judge of character very quick to decide if he likes someone and when he has taken against someone that doesn't change.

So the teacher that told him off for not making eye contact amongst other things out of his control he disliked and as a result struggled with her for the year she covered PPA. She didn't bother to find out about him and rightly so he didn't like the way he was treated. Thankfully her stay at the school was very short lived

He had a physio he refused to work with because of the way she treated him. When he had a joint physio and OT appointment the physio was amazed how he cooperated with the OT but that was because the OT bothered to get to know him!

So perhaps the behaviour music man encounters is more to do with how he conducts himself...

My son is also accepting of new people and likes someone straightaway if they respond to him in the right way. He has no prejudices which is one thing at least that makes him a better person than some.

I have

You must equally often have come across those lamenting the demise of special schools because they needed one, surely? I think it's important not to tar everyone with the same brush. Many people support special schools for very good reasons, nothing to do with resistance to inclusion.

I have experienced and observed the opposite

And this is the problem isn't it? While mainstream schools in general make huge efforts to include SEN pupils, some are failing in good faith, some are not bothering, and within one school - some teachers try really hard and others don't engage so much.

I think it's important not to tar everyone with the same brush.

Riding So don't. I'm just speaking, honestly, from my, real, lived experiences. They are relevant to the discussion. To say, me mentioning them, is a bit of a 'non sequitur' minimises them.

right then here goes..
Musicman, you are rude, unprofessional and should not be in the profession. You have little or no understanding of additional needs and clearly demonstrate that you are not capable of taking a class with a child with additional needs. You are therefore willing to ensure that a child with additional needs does not achieve parity because you consider the needs of others more important than the needs of said child. It is your fault that you are unable to occupy and help a child with additional needs. It is your fault that you are incapable of teaching a class of thirty without managing the needs of all them. Ergo, find a job better suited to your beliefs and temperament. I have been in many classrooms in all sectors and haven't come across this problem in all of them, only in the ones where the teacher is too obstinate to engage.

So don't

I'm not. I didn't say you 'mentioning' them was a problem at all. What you actually said was "Too often" support for special schools is found in people who who are resistant to mainstream inclusion.

If you'd said "sometimes" I'd have agreed with you.

It came across as minimising those who really need special schools, many of whom are 100% supportive of mainstream inclusion it just didn't work for them.

There were so man points in your posts that made my head hurt and my teeth clench, music man, that I have no response to you that wouldn't be deleted. 'Bless him....' FTS (you lover of LOLs and final good byes)

I have always hoped MNHQ would not delete posts, but instead highlight them in neon orange so they would stand out for the arseholery they are. Your posts should be highlighted so that others can see the patronising BS that parents of children with additional needs have to put up with.

I think it is clear from here that MS can work well for some children but too many are being failed

My son is in a special school where he will take tests in functional skills for Maths and English as opposed to being made to sit GCSEs in the subjects and left feeling a constant failure.

If the reason schools don't offer functional skills exams is down to the Government then that is disgusting...they are failing a whole group of less able students. Being left to fail a subject again and again...,what does this do to the mental health of the student? And it's certainly not "inclusion".

Too often" support for special schools is found in people who who are resistant to mainstream inclusion.

If you'd said "sometimes" I'd have agreed with you.

Riding But 'sometimes' is 'too often' IMO. Because this should not happen. It is insincere. It was in this vein, I said it. This is the way I use this particular turn of phrase. I am sorry if it came across as minimising other people's experiences, in any way. It was not meant to.

No worries, I think we broadly agree anyway.

'Violently agree' is a term that seems apt, Riding.

I don't mind, as long as it helps get to the crux of an issue.

When I was looking around Special schools. I visited 16 and there was only two which I liked. That says something. Not only that, but if I didn't get funding to get DS into his current school, we would of returned to his mainstream school. But luckily we did get funding.

Unfortunately, DS was literally baby sat at his mainstream school though his teacher was really lovely and tried really hard with DS. Plus, DS has and still has very very severe speech and language difficulties, the MS curriculum is very language-y... he would of struggled throughout the years. We could of stayed put at his mainstream and see how he got on but I didn't want to take the risk. His language and academic skills have enhance greatly. His school is not perfect but they have done so much with him.

Some special schools have low expectations of students. I hated that, I want a place where they understand DS needs...knows his limitations but still have realistic high expectations for him.

The mainstream school I was working at, some of the staff members were instructed to take the SEN children out the lessons (only the ones that deemed behaviourally or didn't fit the image) incase If it was Ofsted or some other educational authority were going come in or observe. I thought that was disgusting.

My son is in a special school where he will take tests in functional skills for Maths and English as opposed to being made to sit GCSEs in the subjects and left feeling a constant failure. No personal experience but it does seem pointless making kids do things they are going to fail in. All this "progress" seems to mean kids get pushed on when they don't know the basics. One of my kids used to teach in a special school and I have a friend who does now so this is the sort of thing they tell me. Much better to succeed at functional skills than fail in GCSEs. I hope the tests go well for him.

That phrase 'if you've met one child with autism you've met one child with autism' had never been more appropriate. I have an elderly relative with dementia and this is something people say about dementia as well, our version is "if you've met one person with dementia you've met one person with dementia." It is so true, everyone is an individual regardless of NT, ASD, ADHD or dementia, all still people with their own personalities.

music if your teaching style is similar to your posting style, ignorant and patronising, then I'm confident the other 29 kids were more than happy to have vampire boy distracting them, and couldn't have been missing out on anything.

I know my nt, academic, well behaved dd would have been far more interested in vampire boys pictures than anything someone with your attitude has to say.

More SEND funding woes are coming:

"High-needs funding is aimed at SEND pupils, and is under increasing pressure as budgets have been squeezed, the number of conditions being diagnosed has increased, and more children survive serious health conditions that cause developmental delays.

In recent years, many local authorities have been forced to boost their "high-needs" cash with money taken from the main pot of school funding they receive from central government, known as the "schools block".

But, from next year, there will be a limit on the amount of money that can be transferred between the two funding streams, equal to 0.5 per cent of a local authority's schools block."

www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news/exclusive-funding-formula-poses-real-problems-send-pupils

Delores there has been lots of criticism of the government's GCSE resit policy, e.g. www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-views/why-must-we-rub-students-noses-their-gcse-disappointment-forced

We thought the government were going to scrap it as policy in March, but they didn't feweek.co.uk/2017/04/10/decision-to-retain-forced-maths-and-english-gcse-resits-extremely-disappointing/