Teaching your children about Egalitarianism, not just Feminism.

[Geminian]

I've just seen a post about a child's T shirt saying Feminism on it, -
although I do see the point and do think it's a lovely idea to promote Feminism - sadly the truth is it will spark up debate with those who are passionate about Feminism (and those who will wonder why on earth you are 'showing off') while you are out shopping which can cause upset while in public and could escalate in front of your children.

My question is, do you really want to put yourself and your children in that situation? And my advice is, why not try "Egalitarianism" instead.

Not many people are aware that there are different types of Feminism as there are different believes but all believe in equality for women, and personally for me, Feminism has been blown out of portion thanks to social media.

I want a Pratchett Test. Like the Bechdel Test but with my NN.

If you only talk about male suicide/MH/homelessness in relation to women's rights, you've failed.

If you only talk about intersex people when making a point about trans people, ditto.

Women's rights and immigration/Islam.

Everyone start calling it the Pratchett Test until it catches on.

Great idea MrsTerryPratchett.

You should start a thread!

I like the idea of the Pratchett test

"Sorry, that fails the Pratchett test"

Would talking about more men die each year at work then women (96%) oh and it's 50% more deaths than DV murder.

How about more likely to die in combat?

More likely to get longer jail sentence for likel for like crimes?

Men are less likely than women to go to universities, those who do are more likely to drop out and those who complete their course are less likely to get a good degree

Male circumcision is still legal

Less likely to have access to Domestic Violence support.

Men have lower life expectancy than women

Or....rather than a race to the bottom would it be better for the equality people are looking for to be the best rather than the worst of both worlds.

Men need to stop putting other men at risk through their careless work practises. Men need to stop starting wars. Plus, look at how women's lives are disrupted by wars, they are not having a picnic in the wars they didn't start.

Men need to challenge patriarchal religions that cut children. You didn't compare circumcision to fgm did you? No, no sane person would.

Men don't need access to the domestic violence support centres, that women set up, in the same numbers as women.

Men can still have life long careers and be promoted whether they are qualified or not, women have to be the best to succeed.

I would love to see MRAs trying to help themselves instead of just whining about the small victories women have, can't see that happening anytime soon though.

*You can actually get a t-shirt that says 'my marxist feminist dialectic brings all the boys to the yard.'.

On the back it says "to whine about how unfair feminism is when men are killing each other and refuse to follow proper health and safety procedures at work and then become angry when I ask what that has to do with women's liberation?".

I'm yet to understand why advocacy for male issues is so frowned upon on a website "by parents for parents"

You know, the only time I ever see men tweeting against male circumcision is when I've just posted something about FGM campaigns.

Last time it happened I spent all of three minutes finding links to organisations fighting male circumcision & tweeted them back.

No response.

Funny that.

Fascinating how men point out that it is overwhelmingly men who die in combat, while failing to notice who has been blocking women having a frontline role......

A clue. Not feminists.

@backoffSunshine - "Feminists often pretend that feminism benefits both sexes and is for the equality of the sexes. Sexes is plural. Male and females need to be discussed."

Feminism is needed because females are at a disadvantage compared to males. Equality with men mean women's opportunities must be increased and broadened, an end put to their harassment as sex objects, discrimination in work place, societal conditioning into pink sparkly gender bullshit, and specific sex-based oppression like being married as child brides, massacred in "honor killings", FGM etc.

All this is just about equality with men. We don't need to discuss men's issues in our fight to have equal rights and opportunities with them. Men can discuss men's issues, if they want to.

If women ever get equal footing with men, and the only issues we have are those bothering men, we would no doubt be interested in discussing them at that point. For now, we have far more pressing problems threatening women around the world.

Is there a board on MN appropriate for the discussion of issues of egalitarianism and social justice apart from feminism? It might help if there was.

Could there be a Men's Rights board?

How about more likely to die in combat

You know civilian deaths are often overlooked.

When we think of WWII or Great War casualties, we picture soldiers. But in actuality, a better image would be a starving rural family.

But I do think that feminism requires socialism, and socialism requires feminism.

Together we can do anything we want. Separate we will struggle.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think a specific Men's Rights board would be a good idea......

Yes and let's see how popular that will be

I am guessing it will hardly be used

Is there a board on MN appropriate for the discussion of issues of egalitarianism and social justice apart from feminism? It might help if there was.
There is a campaigns board, Errol. I'm not sure how often it pops into active convos though.
A social justice board snacks a little of Victorian Beneficence and dogoodery, considering the socio-economic status of MNers.

I would fully support a campaign to outlaw the mutilation of male children, as fgm is outlawed. I do fervently wish that those laws were upheld.

I would support a ban on religious and cultural mutilation of all children. Circumcision still doesn't compare to fgm though.

I can find a Mumsnet Campaigns board, I thought that was for MNHQ blessed issues? It wouldn't occur to me to start a thread there. And some of the issues brought up inappropriately on Feminism aren't necessarily 'campaign' material.

Just stop using children as billboards for your beliefs.

"Yes and let's see how popular that will be

I am guessing it will hardly be used"
Or it could be the place for sensible discussion about how men can do something about the areas where they feel disadvantaged? Such as the low number of men in cleaning, caring and the lower paid teaching jobs? Or where they can talk about how they should work together for more refuges for male victims of domestic violence. And how they can campaign for changes in patriarchal working practices so that more of them are in the position to offer 50:50 care of children after separation. Oh, and how they are going to organise more support for for men with mental health issues....

"a specific Men's Rights board would be a good idea."

How many posts do you think it will have in a year? My guess would be a maximum of 3.

"Men's rights" are commonly covered under Human Rights. Women's struggle to catch up with men's rights is called Feminism.

it could be

But I think it's unlikely to be

These discussions are happening but it's for men not to expect or demand women to do this for them or to complain when women are not getting on their campaign wagon becuase they are involved in others

Oh - there is a Human Rights topic. Good - but sad it doesn't seem to appear often. Thats where most of the (valiid) debates people try to chuck into Feminism should go.