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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Teaching your children about Egalitarianism, not just Feminism.

190 replies

Geminian · 17/09/2017 11:00

I've just seen a post about a child's T shirt saying Feminism on it, -
although I do see the point and do think it's a lovely idea to promote Feminism - sadly the truth is it will spark up debate with those who are passionate about Feminism (and those who will wonder why on earth you are 'showing off') while you are out shopping which can cause upset while in public and could escalate in front of your children.

My question is, do you really want to put yourself and your children in that situation? And my advice is, why not try "Egalitarianism" instead.

Not many people are aware that there are different types of Feminism as there are different believes but all believe in equality for women, and personally for me, Feminism has been blown out of portion thanks to social media.

OP posts:

Thread gallery

MadMags · 18/09/2017 03:26

Are we allowed post "fuck off" if it's aimed at more than one poster?

Asking for a friend...

ladyballs · 18/09/2017 06:15

Whatever dude.

mogulfield · 18/09/2017 06:17

I call journalist. Why else would you right such nonsense?

Datun · 18/09/2017 07:52

Isn't egalitarianism treating everyone the same?

So where should we start?

Should we advocate for two men a week to be killed by their partner? Or for one in five men to suffer rape or sexual assault? How about recommending eight-year-old boys get sold in marriage to 55 year-old women?

Perhaps we could start a practice where boys get half their penis cut off to stop them enjoying sex, you know, just in case they want to have sex with a woman when they're adults. And we should certainly kill any young man who wants to marry outside his religion. Not forgetting killing 117 million boy babies before they're born, of course. We mustn't turn a hair when 200 million boys go missing across the globe.

Because that would be equality.

If, on the other hand, if you want to stop those practices for women, that would be called feminism.

FlaviaAlbia · 18/09/2017 07:54

I knew it. That tshirt post was posted at the same time as a thread about how pole dancing and removing your clothes for me is empowering

We're having an invasion again.

FlaviaAlbia · 18/09/2017 07:55

Ha, men, not me

SusanTheGentle · 18/09/2017 07:57

yawns

smashes patriarchy

backOffSunshine · 18/09/2017 08:22

"We're having an invasion again"

By whom?

FlaviaAlbia · 18/09/2017 08:53

MRA's doing it for the craic usually

backOffSunshine · 18/09/2017 08:57

I see

I'm yet to understand why advocacy for male issues is so frowned upon on a website "by parents for parents".

I assume that about 50% of parents are male and we're likely to have around 50% male offspring.

TashaYar · 18/09/2017 08:59

Because the "advocacy for male issues" only ever comes up when we are talking about female issues. It's not genuine, it's just a silencing tactic. That is what is frowned upon.

backOffSunshine · 18/09/2017 09:19

It seems like the opposite on this thread.

A suggestion that 'feminism' is an "out of favour" or poisonous label was met with calls of "must be an MRA invasion". It was a silencing tactic against the OP who dared to have a different opinion.

Tell me if I'm wrong.

Datun · 18/09/2017 09:28

backOffSunshine

You're wrong. Mens rights, should be listened to, of course. But it's generally framed in relation to why feminism is wrong.

Women's rights do not cancel out men's rights. So why bother to talk about feminism when you're talking about men's rights?

Why bother talking about egalitarianism in relation to why feminism is wrong?

Why do men's rights and egalitarianism make feminism wrong? That's my question.

backOffSunshine · 18/09/2017 09:48

I think you misunderstood my question.

I said that MRA aren't silencing feminists but it's an accusation made (usually by women) when someone disagrees with their feminist stance.

So,

on this thread, was MRA used in a 'don't listen to them, they're an MRA' way?

I'll try to answer your questions;

"why bother to talk about feminism when you're talking about men's rights?"

Feminists often pretend that feminism benefits both sexes and is for the equality of the sexes. Sexes is plural. Male and females need to be discussed. Girls / women out earn and out learn boy / men. Perhaps MRAs can look at what feminists in the past changed to give girls this massive boost to come from behind and overtake.

"Why bother talking about egalitarianism in relation to why feminism is wrong?"

The terms 'feminist' and 'feminism' are massive turn offs for men and women around the world. As a movement achieves its aims, it focuses on the minutiae and becomes more extreme. This is the situation that modern feminism has found itself in. It needs to be rebranded. Not because the 'patriarchal media' has pulled a fast one, That's childish and simplistic. The truth is closer to home. People don't like modern feminists even if they like part of the message.

"Why do men's rights and egalitarianism make feminism wrong?"

I don't recall reading or saying that. However, I would say that things like quotas can trample on the rights of one class.

For example, there's a law in France where a certain number of directors must be female. Why?

I have ~600 people working underneath me and they can be split into 2 groups. In the first group there's approximately a 70/30 male/female split and the reverse in the second. Both of these groups go against typical expectations for the fields. The first is traditionally female and vice versa in the second. I would be fuming if I had to hire someone because of their genitals as opposed to acumen. If I had to sack a member of the board to hire a woman because of an imposition made by the government, I would be fuming.

Going to answer my question?

TashaYar · 18/09/2017 09:51

I don't understand how anyone cannot see that saying "stop talking about women so much, you have to talk about men" is an attempt at silencing.

WorraLiberty · 18/09/2017 09:59

Oh I do love it when people slip into a comfy little name change to give us unsolicited advice

My question is, do you really want to put yourself and your children in that situation? And my advice is, why not try "Egalitarianism" instead.

My advice is grow a backbone, post under your usual nickname if you feel so passionately about this, and if you're going to start a thread, don't forget to return to it.

You're welcome.

Datun · 18/09/2017 10:17

backOffSunshine

Is this your question?

...on this thread, was MRA used in a 'don't listen to them, they're an MRA' way?

Because if so, you might want to direct it to the person who you think made that statement.

(If you want my answer, it would be I don't care. It's a boring question designed to inflame, and I don't care about the question or the answer.)

JacquesHammer · 18/09/2017 10:18

I'm yet to understand why advocacy for male issues is so frowned upon on a website "by parents for parents"

Because it is only ever used as a diversionary tactic when talking about women's issues.

I am very interested - and supporting through an event - a charity that aims to improve awareness and support for males with mental health issues.

The difference being when I speak to the guy about it he deals with it because its relevant and passionate and never as a "but what about the meeeeeeeen" type argument.

Take a look at Philip Davies MP - he ostensibly argued there should be more awareness for men suffering domestic violence. First time he mentioned it, he did it to filibuster a bill surrounding female domestic violence.

THAT is the point - not that there aren't issues that undoubtedly affect men but that they're used as a diversion away from female issues.

backOffSunshine · 18/09/2017 13:19

@Datun

One thing is for sure, it's people like you, with attitudes like yours, which have made feminist into an insult and something most women don't want to be associated with.

You are undoing the good work of generations of women before you and do so with such misguided arrogance.

Foolishly, having read your posts for a while, I wasted time replying to you only to get a "I don't care" response to my question.

I really hope that one day you consider that you're harming the cause you used to support. Do other women a favour (god knows you make it clear what disdain you hold men in), wind your neck in and adjust your attitude.

backOffSunshine · 18/09/2017 13:20

@JacquesHammer

But it was used to shut up someone; not to silence feminists but by one.

DrKrogersfavouritepatient · 18/09/2017 13:26

Thanks for the heads up about the t shirts. That's Christmas sorted.

DrKrogersfavouritepatient · 18/09/2017 13:28

*Isn't egalitarianism treating everyone the same?

So where should we start?

Because that would be equality.

If, on the other hand, if you want to stop those practices for women, that would be called feminism.*

this

DrKrogersfavouritepatient · 18/09/2017 13:32

*A suggestion that 'feminism' is an "out of favour" or poisonous label was met with calls of "must be an MRA invasion". It was a silencing tactic against the OP who dared to have a different opinion.

Tell me if I'm wrong.*

OK, you're wrong.
You're welcome.

BeyondNoone · 18/09/2017 13:32

Datun you naughty girl - you're feministing wrong and putting all of the other girls off!!

BeyondNoone · 18/09/2017 13:34

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