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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is he Right, Left, or is He Nothing at All? Trump thread continued.

986 replies

TheClaws · 17/09/2017 01:20

My bet is on nothing.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3024189-In-the-dim-corner-we-have-Trump-In-the-dictator-corner-we-have-Kim-Or-is-that-mixed-up

OP posts:
Thread gallery
49
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 17/09/2017 17:22

Following on from yesterday:

Renato Mariotti @renato_mariotti
THREAD: Why the Facebook search warrant obtained by Mueller transforms what we know about the scope and direction of his investigation.
1/ Yesterday I wrote this thread about what the Facebook search warrant tells us. You should read it if you haven't.
2/ In that thread, I discussed why the Facebook search warrant suggests that Mueller is closing in on foreign individuals who
3/ tried to undermine our election. I also explained why that could raise potential liability for Trump associates who aided their effort.
4/ Charges against foreigners for "contributing" to our election or against Americans for helping them are very different than the sorts
5/ of things we previously knew Mueller was looking at. For example, potential false disclosures by Manafort or Kushner are narrow crimes
6/ that don't implicate Russian operatives at all. An obstruction case focused on the firing of Comey can also be fairly narrow.
7/ That fit my experience of what prosecutors focus on charging. Despite what a lot of twitter or TV pundits tell you,
8/ proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt is hard. So earlier this week, when I sat down to write a comprehensive piece for @politico
9/ about what we knew about the scope of the Mueller probe, I discussed these very narrow areas. I concluded that the other pieces
10/ like the Trump Tower meeting were fairly undeveloped and it was hard to say if we would see anything other than narrow charges.
11/ Last night I reworked that whole piece (it's coming out Monday, look for it) because the search warrant means that Mueller is
12/ going after the sort of explosive crime that people speculated about when the investigation began. It's not easy to prove a wide-ranging
13/ international criminal operation but Mueller is not only trying to do that but he's far enough along that he was able to present
14/ evidence in an affidavit that laid out the crime and convinced the judge that there was good reason to believe it was committed.
15/ That means it is now very conceivable that a Russian could be indicted by Mueller. We don't yet know whether Mueller has evidence that
16/ an American aided them, but it's certainly conceivable that an American and Russian could be charged together with an effort to
17/ undermine our election. Two days ago, I would have called that idea highly speculative at best. Just recently I talked about the limits
18/ of what Mueller and the criminal justice system could do, in this thread:

mobile.twitter.com/renato_mariotti/status/908102785048203265

19/ My warnings there still apply. But it is now reasonable to consider that Mueller will generate explosive charges related to Russian
20/ interference. If that happened, it could have broader implications that I'll explore elsewhere. But I'll leave you with this last
21/ thought. Would there be a higher political cost associated with pardoning someone who helped Russians undermine the election?
22/ If so, that would have implications for whether individuals would cooperate or whether pardons would even be forthcoming. /end

cozietoesie · 17/09/2017 17:28

I look forward to the piece coming out tomorrow.

lionheart · 17/09/2017 19:53

Me too cozie.

In the meantime:

nypost.com/2017/09/15/evangelicals-are-souring-on-trump-poll-shows/

PlectrumElectrum · 17/09/2017 19:54

Late again to the party - thanks for new thread, off to catch up.

CaveMum · 17/09/2017 20:09

Thanks for the new thread, I'm still about but mostly lurking at the moment!

lionheart · 17/09/2017 20:12
Grin
Is he Right, Left, or is He Nothing at All? Trump thread continued.
cozietoesie · 17/09/2017 21:32

....something that we all need to have a serious conversation about....??

Grin
lionheart · 17/09/2017 21:53

What money??

inaugural

cozietoesie · 17/09/2017 22:09

I guess they're hoping that everyone will have forgotten about it by end-November. (Or thereafter.) Wink

lionheart · 17/09/2017 23:00

Maybe they will. Smile

Kyle Griffin‏Verified account
@kylegriffin1
Follow
More
Trump personal lawyer Michael Cohen to testify before the Senate Intelligence Committee on Tuesday, he tells NBC News.

cozietoesie · 17/09/2017 23:01

In open or closed session?

cozietoesie · 17/09/2017 23:05

Ah. It looks like closed session.

cozietoesie · 18/09/2017 00:35

The more I think about it, the more staggered I am by 45's retweet of that mocked-up video purporting to show him hitting Clinton with a golf ball. The man is unfit for office.

Lweji · 18/09/2017 00:36

Petty and pathetic.

TheClaws · 18/09/2017 01:01

Petty and pathetic it may be, but it might have helped him regain some ground with his base supporters that had a wobble when seemed to desert them on DACA. They are crowing over this. It doesn't take much to get them back on side ... just another violent, misogynistic meme.

OP posts:
cozietoesie · 18/09/2017 01:14

Are the really crowing, though, or just.......posturing? (Because they feel they ought to behave in that way for public consumption.)

Lweji · 18/09/2017 01:16

If your president was a nazi.
Even treason looks better on TV.

It's the Emmy Awards with Stephen Colbert.

TheClaws · 18/09/2017 01:22

Cozie Imagine a group of guys in a pub laughing over something vile they've seen. That. It could be posturing, but given it's an Internet forum ...

OP posts:
OuaisMaisBon · 18/09/2017 06:10

Is someone like Spicer turning up at the Emmys a normal thing to happen? It's not funny, is it?

Is he Right, Left, or is He Nothing at All? Trump thread continued.
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 18/09/2017 06:39

No definitely not.

Pé Resists @4everNeverTrump
Bannon got a cushy interview on 60Minutes.

Spicer got a cameo on the #Emmys.

If you enable Nazism, you face no consequences. America, 201

Jamelle Bouie
Jamelle Bouie @jbouie
The degree to which Sean Spicer has faced no consequences is a glimpse into the post-Trump future.

Christopher Stroop @C_Stroop
This bodes ill. If our cultural elite feels comfortable embracing Trump stooges, welcome to kleptocratic-theocratic dystopia. #Resist

Brian Schatz @brianschatz
It is not funny that the spokesperson for the President lied aggressively and frequently, and he should not be treated like a celebrity.

@washingtonpost
Reaction to Spicer’s Emmys appearance: "Please don’t normalize" him

www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/09/17/reaction-to-spicers-emmys-appearance-please-dont-normalize-him/

(The emmys also chose to include roger ailes in the montage of all the wonderful screen personalities who died last year)

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 18/09/2017 06:50

Kenneth P. Vogel @kenvogel
Here's a photo of Ty Cobb & John Dowd casually & loudly discussing details of Russia investigation at @BLTSteakDC while I sat at next table.

@kenvogel
SCOOP: Don McGahn scolded Ty Cobb for discussing Russia investigation at DC steakhouse, where @nytimes overheard it.

<a class="break-all" href="https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/17/us/politics/trump-lawyers-white-house-russia-mcgahn-ty-cobb.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&referer=t.co/nOu9fYXSYu?amp=1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/17/us/politics/trump-lawyers-white-house-russia-mcgahn-ty-cobb.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&referer=t.co/nOu9fYXSYu?amp=1

Trump Lawyers Clash Over How Much to Cooperate With Russia Inquiry

The debate in Mr. Trump’s West Wing has pitted Donald F. McGahn II, the White House counsel, against Ty Cobb, a lawyer brought in to manage the response to the investigation. Mr. Cobb has argued for turning over as many of the emails and documents requested by the special counsel as possible in hopes of quickly ending the investigation — or at least its focus on Mr. Trump.

Mr. McGahn supports cooperation, but has expressed worry about setting a precedent that would weaken the White House long after Mr. Trump’s tenure is over. He is described as particularly concerned about whether the president will invoke executive or attorney-client privilege to limit how forthcoming Mr. McGahn could be if he himself is interviewed by the special counsel as requested.

The friction escalated in recent days after Mr. Cobb was overheard by a reporter for The New York Times discussing the dispute during a lunchtime conversation at a popular Washington steakhouse. Mr. Cobb was heard talking about a White House lawyer he deemed “a McGahn spy” and saying Mr. McGahn had “a couple documents locked in a safe” that he seemed to suggest he wanted access to. He also mentioned a colleague whom he blamed for “some of these earlier leaks,” and who he said “tried to push Jared out,” meaning Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and senior adviser, who has been a previous source of dispute for the legal team.

After The Times contacted the White House about the situation, Mr. McGahn privately erupted at Mr. Cobb, according to people informed about the confrontation who asked not to be named describing internal matters. John F. Kelly, the White House chief of staff, sharply reprimanded Mr. Cobb for his indiscretion, the people said.

Mr. Cobb sought to defuse the conflict in an interview over the weekend, praising Mr. McGahn as a superb lawyer. “He has been very helpful to me, and whenever we have differences of opinion, we have been able to work them out professionally and reach consensus,” Mr. Cobb said. “We have different roles. He has a much fuller plate. But we’re both devoted to this White House and getting as much done on behalf of the presidency as possible.”

[...] Tension between the two comes as life in the White House is shadowed by the investigation. Not only do Mr. Trump, Mr. Kushner and Mr. McGahn all have lawyers, but so do other senior officials. The uncertainty has grown to the point that White House officials privately express fear that colleagues may be wearing a wire to surreptitiously record conversations for Mr. Mueller.

Ronald Klain @RonaldKlain
This conversation was OUTSIDE. On the street. It discussed documents locked in a WH safe. But, you know, @HillaryClinton sent emails.

Is he Right, Left, or is He Nothing at All? Trump thread continued.
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 18/09/2017 06:51

Betsy Woodruff
Betsy Woodruff @woodruffbets
This is imptnt: US-backed forces in Syria say the Russians targeted them and injured 6 - 1st time this has happened

www.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/us-backed-force-says-hit-russian-regime-strikes-000318122.html

Russia strike wounds US-backed Syria forces, coalition says

Adam Khan @Khanoisseur
So much for the "ceasefire"…

Not a single tweet from Trump criticizing Putin for attacking US forces, but hey, Rocket Man!

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 18/09/2017 06:55

Julia Davis @JuliaDavisNews
U.S. considering closing its embassy in Cuba

www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/world/national-security/us-considering-closing-its-embassy-in-cuba/2017/09/17/e032b3e1-f167-4010-8147-39dbe33edf35_story.html

Olga_Lautman NYC ✨ @olgaNYC1211
Of course Trump would hand🇷🇺the gift of closing the Cuba embassy! Why would Trump want monitoring of Cuba while Russia moves in #TrumpRussia

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 18/09/2017 06:57

<a class="break-all" href="https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/16/climate/trump-arctic-refuge-drilling.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimesscience&smtyp=cur&referer=t.co/4hLmWtGwxn?amp=1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/16/climate/trump-arctic-refuge-drilling.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimesscience&smtyp=cur&referer=t.co/4hLmWtGwxn?amp=1

Trump Administration Moves to Open Arctic Refuge to Drilling Studies

NYT Science @NYTScience
It is a possible first step toward opening the pristine wilderness area to oil and gas drilling

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 18/09/2017 06:58

Wall Street Journal @WSJ
·
1h
Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said he has seen no indication that North Korea is responding to sanctions

www.wsj.com/amp/articles/u-s-warns-north-korea-must-give-up-nuclear-weapons-1505671523

U.S. Orders ‘Rocket Man’ Kim Jong Un to Ditch Nuclear Weapons