Do your family, friends, work colleagues, anyone ever discuss Brexit anymore?

[StevieNicksMirage]

My family don't. None of my friends are interested. Nor are my work colleagues.

Was wondering if it ever comes up in anyone else's conversations.

The UK company was purchased at a bargain price thanks to Brexit resulting in a far lower market valuation. The employees remain there for now but within six months the company will be wound down, my DP's company only wanted them for their technology.

This is disaster capitalism . Just for anyone on this thread who don't know, the Legatum Institute are close advisors to our present government on the issue of Brexit. Their speciality (besides arguing/pushing for a 'hard Brexit') is disaster capitalism.

A hard Brexit will, indeed, be an absolute bonanza for some. I very much doubt that a lot of those who voted Leave understand that many of those telling us 'Brexit will be a success' have a. a narrow definition of 'success' and b. see it as being a 'success' for a particular and defined group. A group which includes those who can buy companies at under-valued (due to financial confusion following the Brexit vote), asset strip those companies, and convert wealth across currencies, rather than the (geographically-bbound) employees.

In short, I disagree that Brexit is completely binary. There is a whole load of nuance involved in what sort of Brexit 'we' aim for, the ^terms in which 'success' is defined, and therefore what we are willing to accept in the name of Brexit.

Do people really want an 'asset-stripping, disaster-capitalism' Brexit? Or would they rather say 'no' to that?

That is why it is so dangerous to continue viewing Brexit as this straightforward yes/no decision, irreversible, non-conversable-about. That is why it is important to understand what people think they have agreed to. And for the terms of what is going ahead under the name of Brexit to be fully open and discussed.

That is why it is important to understand what people think they have agreed to.

I completely agree with this. I always thought the whole referendum question was completely flawed. It's like asking people if they want to sell their house. Yes or no? The answer is always that it depends.... For £10,000?. No. For £10 million? Yes. The whole question was ridiculous. If you're Jeremy Corbyn, you think the EU is an evil capitalist behemoth. If you're Nigel Farage, you think it's a massive, cost guzzling socialist bureaucracy. They're at opposite ends of the spectrum.....

"And for the terms of what is going ahead under the name of Brexit to be fully open and discussed."

But wanting to debate terms gets Remainers labelled as unpatriotic and not wanting Brexit to be a success. The Leaver argument is that the very act of leaving guarantees success. Ergo the binary nature of the debate.

I'm from the countryside where most people in my family/family friends voted to leave.

But where I live in London the majority voted to stay so it's hard I discuss as I'm still totally on the fence about it. Missed my chance to vote and I still can't decide which way I would of voted.

Natalia and ScottishDiem Yes. I couldn't agree with you more. However, I do think that is why we have to resist the enforced binary. And continue to resist. Conversation by conversation. Thread by thread. It's a bit like wading through shark-infested porridge but I think if it just makes a few people, each time, think: "Hold on a minute ..." it's worth it.

I genuinely can't believe that the majority of people in this country voted Leave believing/hoping that what they were voting for was the asset-stripping which the group around our government have in mind when they envision a 'successful' Brexit. I suspect most of the Leave voters thought that they, or people like them, would benefit (at some unspecified time in the future). I doubt they define success as a situation like that in Russia, where a group of very rich oligarchs buy up the assets.

Yes. DP is french. I'm moving to Paris next week, wondering what the hell will happen once brexit happens.

Yes. A lot. But DH is an EU citizen. He is very angry about the way the government is treating people like him.

If you're Jeremy Corbyn, you think the EU is an evil capitalist behemoth. If you're Nigel Farage, you think it's a massive, cost guzzling socialist bureaucracy. They're at opposite ends of the spectrum.....

I'm Jeremy Farage then

I think the EU is a massive cost guzzling behemoth, too tied up in bureaucracy & self importance, & doggedly pursuing the neo-liberalism that the UK has already been & done over the last 30 yrs (and has realised that it's not all it was cracked up to be).

But do you want that neo-liberalism replaced by a libertarian, disaster-capitalism model, Faith ? And, if not, what are you doing to stop that happening in your name?

What I did was vote to leave the EU, so that the people of the UK can decide on what happens with the UK.

... and so now you have to decide. And I'll say again, what have you done with your responsibility and your (albeit limited) autonomy? The situation is ongoing. Personally, I think that we all need to be putting pressure on those with any influence to turn the government away from a disaster-style capitalism model of Brexit.

You say you voted for more influence.

Therefore, you voted for the duty to exert that influence.

It is therefore your duty and your responsibility to be more involved.

I hope you weren't one of these silly people who voted for other people to do the work - because that would be lazy and stupid.

Seriously, if you truly don't want an asset-stripping Brexit, now is the time to write to your MP, get involved in politics (whichever group appeals to you) and start making your influence felt - however small you think that may be.

I hope you weren't one of these silly people who voted for other people to do the work - because that would be lazy and stupid.

🙄

I would expect 'other people' to do the work of Brexit, yes.

I certainly don't get politicians/policy makers/heads of sheds of various corporations or people whose job is to do thesethings related to do my job for me - so I'm not exactly sure why I should be expected to do other people's jobs for them tbh.

So "the people" were told by those who understood the EU and the economy that Brexit would be an unmitigated disaster.

"The people" decided they were being lied to and voted for Brexit anyway.

"The people" now want those who understand the EUand the economy to wave a magic wand and make Brexit a success.

Not going to happen.

Its a bit like asking a cardiologist of they can perform a complicated operation on a patient.
Cardiologist says no - likelihood is patient will die.
Onlookers say we don't care what you think. You're lying. Operate.
Cardiologist operates.
Patient dies.

Yes with friends who have a similar (remain) mindset.
I avoid any mention of it with family who voted Brexit because I really don't want to fall out with them.

Not read entire thread, yes, family and friends (both sides of the debate) still discuss Brexit, which has in reality barely started. Sadly too many people seem to think Brexit had already happened.

Personally I'd like a further referendum on the ACTUAL TERMS of the negotiated settlement once they have been agreed. As such, I've signed and shared the petition below, not that I expect anyone to pay any attention but at least I feel I'm making my voice heard in some small way

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/200004

For dh and me it's a daily topic at our workplaces as it has a big impact on both fields. the people in my team voted out and don't discuss it anymore apart from occasional 'out means out' 'respecting the will of the people' comments. Most of them are close to retirement so aren't too worried about jobs.

I've signed the petition @lettuceWrap

Thank you for sharing. I've shared on social media as well.

Lot's of people agree!

Its a bit like asking a cardiologist of they can perform a complicated operation on a patient.
Cardiologist says no - likelihood is patient will die.
Onlookers say we don't care what you think. You're lying. Operate.
Cardiologist operates.
Patient dies.

If you want to run with a cardiologist analogy, it would be more accurate to say:

Its a bit like asking a cardiologist of they can perform a complicated operation on a patient.

Cardiologists are divided as to whether the operation will be a success or not.

Cardiologists then form 2 groups.

Group #1 says no - likelihood is patient will die.
Group #2 says yes - likelihood is patient will survive & thrive.

Choice is given to next of kin to decide way forward.

Next of kin chooses.

Operate.

Cardiologist operates.

As the operation is still ongoing, we are yet to see whether the patient will die, or survive & thrive.....

Cardiologists then form 2 groups.

The vast majority of cardiologists concur that surgery is ill-advised. A tiny minority of cardiologists denounce this as Project Fear and explain that the patient will not just survive surgery, but will become a superhuman sports-god.

Next of kin chooses to go ahead with surgery on the basis of the tiny second group's promise. Then they demand that members of the first group renounce their expert opinion against the surgery, and furthermore that they should be the ones to carry out the surgery that they had advised against, and it will be their fault if the surgery goes wrong.

During the procedure, the next of kin refuse to consider any arising concerns about the patient's condition because, well, they've decided that the patient will become a superhuman sports-god, and therefore that will happen.

Some may have been divided as to the likelihood of success.

Those who understand how the EU works and how the UK economy works were pretty united in their assessment that it was not in the best interests of the UK. That includes most members of the UK parliament regardless of their political affiliation, most civil servants, CBI etc.

Those who argued in favour were largely nutters (Rees Mogg etc) disturbed people (Gove etc) racists (Farage) and the assett strippers and others who stand to gain a lot from a massive reduction in the social welfare standards available to workers in this country. I reserve a special place in the ignominy stakes for Corbyn who privately wanted out but instead offered lukewarm support and Johnson a man with no integrity who knows that Brexit will damage the UK but promotes it to feed his own bloated ego.

But enough sitting on the fence from me.

And laid bare is the difference between you & me.

I don't have the level of devotion required to maintain such heightened levels of outrage at other people who happened to have a different opinion to me on EU membership.