To challenge this note from nursery ?

[Blankiefan]

Leaflet came home with 4yo DD from nursery (it's the school nursery). Note is about benefits of outside play and learning. So far, so good... until...

"Boys, in particular, require a means of testing themselves (and true abilities) in a physical manner, which is impossible in the confined space of a school classroom."

AIBU to think this reflects some sort of belief that the boys should be challenged in ways the girls aren't? It's a philosophy I'm uncomfortable with - why should they make a distinction on gender?

She's only been attending this nursery for a fortnight - she goes for afternoon sessions spending the rest of her time at the private nursery she's been at since she was 6 months old. Am I going to be that parent if I complain this soon into her school career? The nursery is part of the school she'll attend for primary.

All three of mine cant resist an obstacle course

They all used to run around and race each other

Play fight

Throwing games

Water fights

Any physical things really

In fact one of them is taking gcse PE, loves going to the gym and plays sport and wants to be a personal trainer and own their own gym

I have two boys and a girl

I would like one of you 'boys are more physical than girls' people to provide some scientific proof rather than examples of your own children. If you inherently believe that then you have probably influenced your children. All kids are different. Just like all adults are different. My friend did 10k this morning and I hate going to the gym. We are both women. Stop the sexist bullshit and give everyone a chance to be themselves instead of pigeonholing girls as inactive little princesses.

I do see what they mean but I think they are wrong to put it like that as there are always exceptions so shouldn't generalise. In my case my daughter has more energy to burn than my son.

"Why don't women compete along side men in the olympics? Why don't women compete with men at football matches?"

Mainly because as teens/adults, on average, woman are shorter and less strong than men. That had no implications for men needing more exercise and time outside than women. It just means that, on average, they are taller and stronger. So you have sex-categorised sport much like you have weight categories in sport, to make it possible for people to compete with other people of a similar ability range. You wouldn't expect a featherweight to compete against heavyweights.

And the OP was about 4 year old children not adult elite sport!

I agree that this is stupidly clumsy and didn't need to be said ...

However, I've been a birth parent, foster parent, adoptive parent, and have worked in playgroups and schools for 15 years... and although it pains me to say it, they have a point.

What point do they have?

I wouldn't care

From my studies I remember that boys get a surge of testosterone around the age of 4 making them more physical in their behaviour and they benefit from a good bit of rough and tumble play in comparison to girls. That's not to say that girls should be less encouraged to engage in physical play, I think the wording could possibly do with being looked at.

From my studies I remember that boys get a surge of testosterone around the age of 4 making them more physical in their behaviour and they benefit from a good bit of rough and tumble play in comparison to girls.

they do, I've seen this in blood tests myself, however it is politically incorrect and unfashionable to say so these days. Unfortunately there are is a certain element in society who seem to believe they can decree what scientific facts are acceptable or not acceptable, purely on the grounds of what suits them.

That's not to say that girls should be less encouraged to engage in physical play,
exactly

Today 18:43 Ketzele

Curious how so many of the 'boys and girls are different' brigade are using the phrase "like it or not". Why is that, I wonder? Could it be that they need the authoritatan emphaticness to compensate for their lack of non-anecdotal evidence?

Ketzele
The 'like it not' is because we know that 'your brigade' dislike facing the fact that there are evident gender differences from a young age as any experienced teacher will hVe observed.
You wanted science. Just for starters:

Date:
July 15, 2016
Source:
City University
Summary:
Children as young as 9 months-old prefer to play with toys specific to their own gender, according to a new study. The research suggests the possibility that boys and girls follow different developmental trajectories with respect to selection of gender-typed toys and that there is both a biological and a developmental-environmental components to the sex differences seen in object preferences.

They are individuals, I don't want to fit in a box labeled "60 plus woman, married, grown up children." I am all those things but I am an individual, I don't drink, I've joined a gym, I like chocolate, I love being a granny. I share some of those things with other women of my age but not all. When people say to me, "Wouldn't you love a nice g and t now." I have to say no, never in a million years. I certainly don't want anyone to tell me what I "should" be doing as I am quite happy with what I am doing.

I was 4 once and was still me, not a stereotype, not a cut out, more active and daring than my rather timid brother and my bookish sister.

Let them be kids and run and play if they want and sit and read a book if they want without reference to sex.

It isn't meant in a sexist way. Boys, in general, don't sit at the writing or creative table, girls do. Boys prefer the outside, the running, jumping, climbing. Parents get so caught up on "my child can write his name" "my child can write numbers to 100" and all the academic side that they complain that their child spends too much time outside or "just playing" Especially in nursery, we encourage all children to develop their gross motor skills especially outside. If a child doesn't have good core muscles, they struggle to sit on a chair without wriggling. They haven't got good fine motor skills so would struggle to write or draw. The outside can be used to develop and challenge children's science knowledge. All children are challenged but boys, in particular, use the outside spaces more. The problem with the written word is it can be read in many ways. If you don't like how it's written, go and have a chat with the EYFS lead.

Copperbeech - you've mentioned this testosterone surge "scientific fact" a couple of times now but not backed it up with anything?

I've not read any scientific evidence to back this statement up. Even if it where true the amount of energy of each child varies for a multitude of different reasons e.g. genetics, diet etc. I would challenge this, even if it's not casual sexism, it was an unnessary thing to write and I would hate people to possibly underestimate my daughter just because she's a girl. At the age of 13 my daughter is stronger than anyone else in her class when tested playing sport. Does the school have a suggestion box? Maybe making your views on the leaflet known via a suggestion box would be a more low key way to go.

38 could you post a link to that study please? I'd like to read it.

Purple - if boys have been socialised to be more active, physical and use the outside space more, then surely the nursery should be focussing on giving girls "a means of testing themselves (and true abilities) in a physical manner, which is impossible in the confined space of a school classroom."

It's teacherspeak for 'boys are a pain in the butt'. Teachers always prefer girls. You can't blame tem.

38Cody, that abstract goes on to say what the gendered toys in question were:

"The toys used in the study were a doll, a pink teddy bear and a cooking pot for girls, while for boys a car, a blue teddy, a digger and a ball were used."

To take one example: diggers have not been around for very long in human history. What seems more likely to you: that human brains have physically evolved in the fifty(?) years diggers have existed so that babies are born with the knowledge that digger = boy? Or, that the society around those children associates diggers with boys and men and that this has an effect on how even very young children in that society behave?

Boys need space to learn to control their gross motor skills in a slightly different way to girls, who learn gross and fine motor skills in 'tandem'. Boys 'conquer' their gross motor skills in order to move on to fine motor. That is my understanding as a nursery assistant. All children are given the same opportunities but when a Mum showed concern for her son's lack of enthusiasm about crayoning, she was told not to worry as he was young and still dealing with his gross motor movements. Hope this helps.

Don’t make an issue over this. Pick your battles carefully. Most boys are different than most girls. The staff doesn’t need to be sent off to re-educattion camp.

The toys used in the study were a doll, a pink teddy bear and a cooking pot for girls, while for boys a car, a blue teddy, a digger and a ball were used.

The thing about this:

If a baby picks up a pink teddy, WHO decides that the pink teddy is a "girl toy" or a "boy toy"? There is nothing innately boy or girl about that object.

I want to read the study.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Confirmation bias, also called confirmatory bias or myside bias, is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's preexisting beliefs or hypotheses. It is a type of cognitive bias and a systematic error of inductive reasoning. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs.

People also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. Biased search, interpretation and memory have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence), belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false), the irrational primacy effect (a greater reliance on information encountered early in a series) and illusory correlation (when people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations).