To think if a boy hits my daughter then yes it is different to if a girl does

[ouchthathurtsabit]

Preparing to be flamed as this is a controversial issue.

I'm a mum of a girl and 2 boys. My daughter came home with a red mark on her face saying that a boy- known for hurting others- had punched her in the face because she had gone in front of him in the queue. The boy was spoken to and it was dealt with. The children are 8 and in year 3.

So I spoke to the teacher and said I was glad it was dealt with and that I was sure my daughter would be fine but it would probably be helpful for this boy to know that it's unacceptable to hurt or hit anyone but that hitting a girl in the face is really not acceptable.

The teacher then had a massive rant at me saying that there is absolutely no difference and that's a very dangerous thing to be teaching children and it would not be an appropriate thing to say in school.

Whist I do understand what she was tryouts g to say, I do try and explain to my boys that In our society, no matter what age you are, if you hit a female then it is completely unacceptable and that no matter what a girl does or says to you then if you respond with physical violence then it's not acceptable. Males are generally bigger and stronger. Am I completely wrong in thinking at 8 years old this could be mentioned? Because I don't know! I know if one of my boys hit a girl in the face I would be a tiny bit more mortified than if it was a girl

Oh, but I do think it was wrong of her to rant at you!

My boys have been both taught that they do not ever, in any circumstances lay their hands on a girl whether she is 3 years old or 30 years old. They are 6 & 1. If they get mad with their female cousins/friends they will walk away to calm down. I would be completely mortified if I was told by the school my son had hit another girl.

My eldest son will stand up for himself, and he has twice hit another boy at school because the boy had hit him first. I have brought him up a 'do not start violence but do hit someone back if they hit you' way. The incidents in school were self defence, both the teachers and myself and the boys mother agreed this. But I would absolutely hit the roof if my boys purposely hurt a girl. If you disrespect a woman you disrespect your mother, end of.

Slash - tbh if I was 6 ft and 15 stone,I would just be overweight. I couldn't build up the same muscle mass and I'm never going to have a male body shape or physique am I? Nor would I want that, quite frankly. It's not all about size anyway. If you hit a woman to the chest it's a lot more painful than if you hit a man - obvious things like that.

No, we haven't missed the point (again). As has been explained many many times, some of us believe socialisation starts early and as such, discussions we have around these incidents need to start early. People are disagreeing on how this incident should have been dealt with precisely because children will one day be adults and it is a bit late to change the goal posts then.

@ProseccoMamam

Teaching your sons to retaliate isn't something to be proud of. You're just teaching them violence is an acceptable way to solve an argument.

I've been attacked numerous times by the teens I worked with (thankfully not in the unit for children who were sex offenders-we were far too well staffed and our male staff were mindful of females difference) and by my own children, mostly ds, due to their disabilities. In no way would it be acceptable for me to fight back, even with the teen girls or boys who towered over me, used weapons and were much more skilled fighters than me. We restrained them, using safe techniques as we are supposed to. Not attacked back or took revenge even when some young people threw our colleges down stairs or broke their bones. The bouncer can and should defend himself, using reasonable reasonable force and restraining her, not by beating her to a pulp. There have been cases where boxers or professional fighters have killed males who initiated a tight with them yet the boxers are still found guilty of manslaughter (or similar depending on the country) because they didn't use reasonable force.

OFFS NOBODY was saying it was ok for her to slap him!! Jesus Christ. It is not ok for my 8 year old to slap me either. It would be fucking abhorrent if I gave her a punch in the face back. (She doesn't hit me btw)

The 5ft 8 stone drunk girl was absolutely disgusting to slap him.

The 20 stone 6 foot 5 doorman did not need to 'defend' himself by punching her to the ground. That was NOT a proportionate or sensible reaction.

My husband is 18 stone and huge. Exceptionally strong and worked the London clubs in is 20's. He has been attacked numerous times over the years. Luckily, there is no tiny woman with brain damage or in a wheelchair for life because he didn't moderate his response according to his physical advantage.

Dahilita by school age girls are already socialsed not to hit, especially boys. And most boys will already be aware of that, and know that they can hit a girl and she won't hit him, same as a boy choosing to hit a boy they are bullying because they are twigged that the victim wont hit back. Socialisation starts at birth and is pretty universal on this point.

Alittle yes you will find that legally assualt if differentiated by the amount of damaged caused. Why gbh &abh are different crimes. Neither is 'less worse'.

@Alittlepotofrosie I'm very proud that my child can stand up for himself thank you. If I was being attacked I know I could hit back, and I'd like my sons to do the same. Like I said, I do not send them out to start fights, but if they have to defend themselves they know how to.

I'm with the teacher tbh. Violence is unacceptable. Doesn't matter if it's a girl, a boy, 2 girls, 2 boys. No hitting means hitting.

Except he's not allowed to stand up for himself if a girl attacks him. How sexist.

@NoMoreNotToday

I guess its just by luck then that there aren't separate categories for "assault by a woman" or "assault by a man". Although it seems some people think that would be perfectly reasonable. You could further sub categorise by "assault by male on male" and "female on female", "male on female" and "female on male". You could have lesser sentences guaranteed for assaults by women as the damage will ALWAYS be less severe because women are petite and weak. After all that's the broad brush approach lots of posters are taking here.

Teaching boys to settle things with their fists encourages a damaging message of "boys are macho and strong and must not complain. Just hit back." I think that's failing boys actually and if everyone did that we'd have schools full of boys beating the shit out of each other.

I still dont see what's wrong with the message "do not hit". Basically that's just showing respect for other people not just "girls and your mother".

If I got punched in the face for no reason by a woman and my friend got punched in the face by a man, are some people actually saying that what happened to my friend would be worse? That the man would deserve more punishment than the woman?

Alittlepotofrosie

Teaching boys not to hit isn't quite working is it?? You know, with the amount of male violence around.

@slashlover

Yes. Yes they are.

It is fairly safe to assume that the punch by the man would be more significant.....you do understand basic biology right?

@Walkingdead11

People aren't teaching their boys not to hit though are they? They're teaching them its ok to hit certain people in certain circumstances. then the little boy grows up believing its ok to assert themselves by hitting, and then they start asserting themselves by hitting in other areas because that's what they've been taught. They don't know any other way to manage their reactions and emotions.

It's lazy to tell boys to fight back. Its parents like that who are causing the problems by enforcing a difference between the sexes and teaching boys its ok to fight other boys while girls are delicate little flowers who need protection. I won't be teaching my boys that. I want them to grow up respecting boys and girls amd not telling them just to fight back as if that solves everything.

My eldest son will stand up for himself, and he has twice hit another boy at school because the boy had hit him first. I have brought him up a 'do not start violence but do hit someone back if they hit you' way. The incidents in school were self defence, both the teachers and myself and the boys mother agreed this. But I would absolutely hit the roof if my boys purposely hurt a girl. If you disrespect a woman you disrespect your mother, end of
Why is it fine for your boys to be violent back to a boy, but violent back to a girl?

If they are retailiating to a violent attack from anothet person then the sex of the original attacker is surely irrelevant.

Why shouldn't a boy be allowed to 'defend himself' if a girl attacks him?

Either violence is acceptable as a response from all parties or it is unacceptable for all parties.

Personally, I'd say it's unacceptable for all and wouldn't encouraging the idea that boys/men sort things out with their fists.

Walkingdead11

So you are saying that?

In the punch, the assaulter has no way of knowing if I have a medical condition, if I'm going to fall over and bang my head, if they're going to catch me in the wrong place and kill me. But at least it wasn't a man!

I don't think anyone has suggested this boy get more punishment because he hit a girl than if he hit a boy. I even said I'm not sold the message is don't hit anyone but especially not girls. But I would expect the school to understand and do something to counter the effect of socialisation and to look into whether this boy hit the girls because she was a girl, in which case another discussion is needed about not targeting females.

My DS lashes (or has done, we are slowly getting there) out lots, and at anyone, girls, boys, bigger boys, teachers, me& his dad and his sister. He can't control his disability and is working on developing coping mechanisms and we have numerous plans in place to stop things getting to that level. His consequences have always been just about taking him somewhere safe to calm down, no matter who he goes for (rarely gets to though) as there is no intent behind it. But for many boys there will already be the intent behind it that it's easier to aim for a girl as she won't fight back than go for a boy who will. Many boys will already be aware if this, it may not be the case in this instance as it isn't in all but I would expect the school to make the effort to try and find out, to keep an eye on if there is a pattern etc.

My DS is considerabley stronger than his bigger twin DD who does mma, age 7. So not sold on the idea they are completely physically equals at this age either.

@MaisyPops yes my sons can defend themselves against other boys, because as boys they are biologically stronger and would do more damage. If my sons were involved in an argument or fight with a girl I'd expect them to either leave the situation or restrain the girl. In a safe way, without harming her (which my eldest knows how to do, as I have sent him to self defence classes)

This is just how my family are, maybe we are old fashioned. But I know damn well that the boys I am related have more respect for women than anyone else I have ever met. I completely understand that violence is a last resort and should not be encouraged. But people are attacked daily and I want to know that my children are able to defend themselves against anyone, male or female.

For me it was just very simple. DD would not expect to be hit by a boy because at home her brothers ate taught that you don't hit girls and that's mine and DH personal opinion. You don't hit girls and it's as simple as that. Should a girl hit you you either restrain or remove yourself.

Fine if the teacher disagreed with me. And in a way I would expect that but she did get quite annoyed at my opinion and this was probably a defence mechanism too.

So if youre already teaching "dont hit girls" why is it so unthinkable that you might teach them "or boys"?

Slash - there is no point bringing all those "ifs and buts" into it. The point is the same - that, all things being equal, you will probably come off worse if a man hit you than a woman. I feel like I'm stating the obvious here!

Males are generally bigger and stronger

Okay, my wife is about 2 inches taller than me, two stone heavier than me and a hell of a lot stronger.

Is it less bad if I hit her, than if her previous partner who was six foot tall and a similar height to her?

I don't think it is on for anyone to hit anyone.