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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that the 45p 'business travel mileage' rate isn't for lifts between friends?

128 replies

MelodyNelson10 · 06/09/2017 10:09

This is about something that's kind of over and done with now, so I'm not really looking for advice but I'm still really curious to see whether most people think AIBU or not.

My friend gave me (and others) a lift in a her car a few times last year and the year before. These were for pretty long distances, a couple of hundred miles or so, when we were going to some events together. A hen party of a mutual friend and a music festival, for example.

I'm obviously very grateful to her for driving all that distance. However, at the end of the journey when we asked 'how much do we owe you for petrol?' she would always say that she needed to work it out according to the government's per-mile figure to factor in wear and tear etc. That figure is 45p per mile, waaaay more than just the cost of petrol.

Was this fair? The way I understand it, that figure is intended for people claiming back tax for mileage they've used for business purposes, NOT for charging your friends for lifts! But I'm prepared to be told that I'm wrong here.

I haven't accepted a lift from her in a while and don't intend to, so it's kind of a moot point now anyway. But we are still friends and it plays on my mind sometimes as I can't help feeling like there's something a bit off about the whole thing.

So... AIBU?

OP posts:
lifesaverormassmurderer · 06/09/2017 11:23

45p is the business mileage but depending on engine size/petrol or diesel we pay our staff anyting from 9p to 22p per mile.

BannedFromNarnia · 06/09/2017 11:27

I am not great at working this out but the petrol in my car (which admittedly is very low mpg) would cost me about £25-30 I would think, depending on whether it was motorway or stop starting.

45p a mile would be £90. That's a very healthy profit I'd be making on my time there.

If it's a journey I'd make anyway I'd appreciate the offer and would probably say 'oh just buy me lunch/a drink', depending on the cost, but if you'd specifically asked me to drive I'd probably want the petrol covering. But asking for wear and tear is a bit off, unless it's literally like commuting to work together.

Roomster101 · 06/09/2017 11:29

I think that it is mean to charge for petrol but also mean to just pay for petrol too. This thread reminds me of why I never offer to drive other people long distances. It's tiring, causes wear and tear on my car and then some people expect to only pay a small amount towards petrol. I would rather drive by myself or use public transport.

Original poster
MelodyNelson10 · 06/09/2017 11:30

I think the formality is what makes it most tight and feeling it's a bit off does not suggest the OP is tight at all.

Thank you, theymademejoin. That's exactly how I feel and I think you've hit the nail on the head.

Obviously people are entitled to form an opinion based on a few posts here, but honestly if you knew me in real life I don't think anyone would ever call me tight. I don't have a lot of money, but if anything I can sometimes get carried away and be a bit too generous with what I do have! I love to be able to treat people when I can, and hate feeling like I'm constantly keeping tabs on what other people owe me.

If my friend had been fairly relaxed about the costs for the drive then I would absolutely have insisted on buying her a few drinks at the other end, or bought her dinner, or sent her some flowers to say thank you. I would never expect to just get a lift for free or for dirt cheap!

As you say, it's the formality of working out a kind of 'bill' like that between friends that really threw me. But you live and learn, and now I know to make sure everyone is on the same page beforehand.

OP posts:
CalmanOnSpeeddial · 06/09/2017 11:35

I think it's a reasonable objective reflection of the cost of running a car, and splitting it between all of you including the car owner seems fair to me.

Roomster101 · 06/09/2017 11:36

I don't think you are tight OP but as a non driver you don't appreciate that driving a car costs more than just petrol and driving long distances is quite tiring. You say that you don't expect a lift to be "dirt cheap" but whether you realise it asking how much petrol costs are does suggest you were expecting a dirt cheap lift. If you bought dinner/drinks it would probably cost as if you had paid 45p per mile anyway.

CalmanOnSpeeddial · 06/09/2017 11:36

I find splitting petrol costs much more complex and open to dispute.

Candlemiss · 06/09/2017 11:37

Sorry, I should have clarified: she did divide the cost between all of us (herself included) so it wasn't 45p each per mile. That really would be ridiculous! But I still feel like it was an awful lot to charge

I don't think it's all that unreasonable now. You'd pay more than that on a train. And she does all the driving. Unusual, maybe, but not really terribly unfair. It does cost a lot to maintain a car in clean and safe condition.

theymademejoin · 06/09/2017 11:40

@NikiBarbie - that's terrible!

@Roomster101 - the driver said she would prefer to drive rather than taking the train as OP suggested. The wear and tear would occur anyway. I also think charging your friends because you're tired after driving a distance you chose to drive is ridiculous.

Candlemiss · 06/09/2017 11:43

more people does equal more wear etc

Agree. An extra 30 + stones in the car plus luggage etc makes a difference, however small.

Hersetta427 · 06/09/2017 11:47

tell her the passenger rate per HMRC is 5p per mile !

Oakmaiden · 06/09/2017 12:02

tell her the passenger rate per HMRC is 5p per mile !

In fairness, the OP said the person gave her "and others" a lift, so the 45p was split between at least 4 of them. So slightly over 11p each per mile. Or £22 for a lift from approx Manchester to central London. I don't think that is outrageous.

And I do think the OP is unreasonable to use it to label her friend "tight" when she is still bitching about it a year later...

Anecdoche · 06/09/2017 12:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lampygirl · 06/09/2017 12:16

I've got a big car and often end up driving. I split the cost of fuel between the passengers excluding me. They all sit and relax whil I drive and navigate, I can't have a beer or whatever at an event and then I usually end up having to drop everyone off. We do sporting events nationally so the mileage adds up. If it's a really long way I'll round it up a bit too. I have to cover the insurance, tyres (not cheap on a big car) and all the other guff that goes with it. If people don't like t they are always welcome to drive themselves.

Original poster
MelodyNelson10 · 06/09/2017 12:21

And I do think the OP is unreasonable to use it to label her friend "tight" when she is still bitching about it a year later...

Nothing exists in a vacuum though, does it? This is one small insight into our friendship and I was curious to hear what others made of it.

Although don't actually recall ever calling my friend 'tight' in any of my posts above. I said that I felt it was a bit 'off' but that I wanted to hear what others thought.

I did say that she and her husband can be so wary of others that it sometimes goes too far the other way and into 'stingy' territory. As I'm sure you can appreciate, though, that comment was based on more than just a couple of lifts.

OP posts:
Roomster101 · 06/09/2017 12:23

@Roomster101 - the driver said she would prefer to drive rather than taking the train as OP suggested. The wear and tear would occur anyway. I also think charging your friends because you're tired after driving a distance you chose to drive is ridiculous.

She may have only preferred to drive if she received the cost of driving from the others in the car though. It didn't say that anyone should charge their friends because they are tired. However, if I am driven a long distance I would show my appreciation of the effort by buying my friend a meal or another present which would probably cost more than 45p a mile anyway.

Laiste · 06/09/2017 12:27

So what did you actually pay her OP? For the 200 mile trip?

Ceto · 06/09/2017 12:29

Given that she divided it between everyone including herself, I think this is fair enough. Also bear in mind that the 45p rate has been in place for years whilst the cost of petrol has gone up massively in that time.

theymademejoin · 06/09/2017 12:34

@Roomster101 - you said "but as a non driver you don't appreciate that driving a car costs more than just petrol and driving long distances is quite tiring", and "whether you realise it asking how much petrol costs are does suggest you were expecting a dirt cheap lift" which suggests, to me anyway, that you think it is reasonable to charge for the fact a long drive is tiring..

Also, if she only preferred to drive if she got mileage from her friends, she should have been clear about that up front. That would have allowed the liftees to make an informed decision on how they should travel.

Original poster
MelodyNelson10 · 06/09/2017 12:34

Something like £50 for the round trip, I think.

If I remember correctly, I'd found return train tickets for around £40 per person for the same journey, although that would have needed booking very far in advance.

I'd rather not state specifically where it was to/from as that might be a little too outing!

Personally I'd much rather relax on a train with a G&T than be cramped in the back of a car for hours, although I appreciate that not everyone likes trains and a lot of people do prefer to drive. But to each their own. But it did make me feel slightly annoyed that I could have had a cheaper, faster and more comfortable journey by train!

OP posts:
OlennasWimple · 06/09/2017 12:36

The benefit of using the HMRC rate is that it isn't a random number that she picked out of the air.

How much did the petrol cost anyway? How would she work that out? By filling up the tank just before setting off and charging the cost of that fill up? (What if there is petrol left over?) What if she was forced to use a more expensive petrol station for some reason - would some people expect to only pay the cost of petrol at the cheaper petrol station?

Laiste · 06/09/2017 12:40

Using the 45p calculation between herself + passenger:

If she took 2 of you a 200 mile journey she charged you £30 each.

If she took 3 of you 200 miles she charged you £22.50.

That's CHEAP OP!

I still feel like it was an awful lot to charge. Do you? You paid her 50 quid for the 400 mile round trip then. What do you think you should have paid?

Roomster101 · 06/09/2017 12:42

but as a non driver you don't appreciate that driving a car costs more than just petrol and driving long distances is quite tiring", and "whether you realise it asking how much petrol costs are does suggest you were expecting a dirt cheap lift" which suggests, to me anyway, that you think it is reasonable to charge for the fact a long drive is tiring..

It doesn't suggest it is reasonable to charge more because a long drive is tiring. It suggests that people should offer more than petrol money (or ask how much the petrol costs are) as not only does it cost more than petrol but if it tiring and therefore a big favour in my opinion.

Seniorcitizen1 · 06/09/2017 12:43

the 45p per mile rate is the rate that HMRC say that a driver breaks even - there is no profit it in for the driver so she was correct to charge 45p per mile - but the total costs then divide amongst the passengers. Petrol is not the only cost associated with driving a car.

Roomster101 · 06/09/2017 12:47

Also, if she only preferred to drive if she got mileage from her friends, she should have been clear about that up front. That would have allowed the liftees to make an informed decision on how they should travel.

Perhaps it didn't occur to her that the liftees wouldn't expect to pay a share of the full cost of driving there considering that she was the one who made the effort and public transport would have cost more.