To think that the 45p 'business travel mileage' rate isn't for lifts between friends?

[MelodyNelson10]

This is about something that's kind of over and done with now, so I'm not really looking for advice but I'm still really curious to see whether most people think AIBU or not.

My friend gave me (and others) a lift in a her car a few times last year and the year before. These were for pretty long distances, a couple of hundred miles or so, when we were going to some events together. A hen party of a mutual friend and a music festival, for example.

I'm obviously very grateful to her for driving all that distance. However, at the end of the journey when we asked 'how much do we owe you for petrol?' she would always say that she needed to work it out according to the government's per-mile figure to factor in wear and tear etc. That figure is 45p per mile, waaaay more than just the cost of petrol.

Was this fair? The way I understand it, that figure is intended for people claiming back tax for mileage they've used for business purposes, NOT for charging your friends for lifts! But I'm prepared to be told that I'm wrong here.

I haven't accepted a lift from her in a while and don't intend to, so it's kind of a moot point now anyway. But we are still friends and it plays on my mind sometimes as I can't help feeling like there's something a bit off about the whole thing.

So... AIBU?

Your friend says she doesn't mind driving because she is covering her travel costs by charging you and your friends extra.

Not a company car, no.

I charge my clients 45p/mile. Not my mates

Ok fine but she wanted to to too.

She can't charge you 45p each as there were 3 of you in the car

You do your own calculation. Take the 45p mileage rate and divide it by 3. You and your friend pay one third of the mileage rate multiplied by whatever distance. It was one journey not 3 journeys. So you just pay one third each.

*to go too

Ah, you need to get lifts with me.

I always drive, I'm happy to, have a bigger car, have driven longer distances than my friends and don't mind motorways.

I never charge for fuel, can't be bothered. The amount is negligible when split between us all. My passengers pay for parking if required and sometimes buy lunch.

The 45p rate is only applicable to privately owned cars, and you need the appropriate insurance to claim it too!! I'm surprised she didn't charge you for that too!

Driving a friend somewhere you were going anyway doesn't involve any more wear and tear (or insurance, tax etc) than driving just yourself.

Taking friends also doesn't involve any more petrol than driving just yourself, so presumably it's not OK to ask for petrol money?

All she's doing is using official rates for car expenses, which are there to compensate for all expenses, not just petrol. By doing this she defends herself against an accusation of being greedy she might get if she simply made up a number.

Having said this, many years ago when I last looked at things, there were two rates for mileage, one for the first X thousand miles, and a much lower rate thereafter. I hope her annual mileage is low enough for her to justify using the higher rate, assuming she is.

I think 40p a mile (she shouldn't be including tax!)

You don't pay tax on milage.

Anyway, if I was driving I would never dream of charging more than petrol costs.

However if a friend was driving and was asking for payment for wear and tear as well, I'd be happy to pay it. At the end of the day, I didn't have to drive myself or use public transport! If she only wanted me to pay for petrol then I'd make sure to cover food and drinks at any stops.

One of my groups has a car share rule, the driver doesn't pay for petrol, so for a trip all petrol costs are shared between all passengers with the drivers not paying in fairness for the driver agreeing to drive and as a contribution to wear and tear. If there are several cars it all gets added together and every passenger pays the same. I think that's fair.

I often get a lift off a friend to retreats etc. She refuses any payment for-errol, as she is going anyway, so I pay any parking costs and buy coffee/lunch etc.

I would be a bit upset to be made a profit out of, TBH.

OP said it was 45p per mile split between all travelling, including the driver.

OK, thanks everyone. I feel vindicated, although I do take on board all the comments that might suggest otherwise.

Overall it seems that this is not a 'normal' thing to do and I will file this away as a bit of an insight into my friend's character. She's a good friend in other ways but I'll definitely tread carefully around anything financial with her in future.

She and her husband are quite wealthy and I think they're the kind of people who are quite wary of other people taking advantage of that. But it sometimes goes too far the other way and can end up seeming just plain stingy.

I actually think it's reasonable (if the 45p is divided by everyone in the car). I'm the only driver in my group of friends, but I don't really like driving. If there's a long journey to be done, and it can be done easily by train or coach, If I'm on my own, I'll buy a ticket and read, relax, and drink a glass of wine on the way. (If I'm with my family or have a lot to transport then I suck it up and drive).

If my friends ask me to drive them door to door on a similar journey which is much more convenient for them, but less pleasant for me, I think I'd do charge the same (a proportion of the 45p per mile). After all, the other option is for them to pay much more and go by coach/train/taxi.

Overall it seems that this is not a 'normal' thing to do and I will file this away as a bit of an insight into my friend's character. She's a good friend in other ways but I'll definitely tread carefully around anything financial with her in future.

Maybe you should think about what this says about your own character too?

But business mileage rates compensate you for the wear and tear on your car for a journey that you would not take were it not for the needs of the business. Driving a friend somewhere you were going anyway doesn't involve any more wear and tear (or insurance, tax etc) than driving just yourself.

No, but you might get a train if you were just going on a 400 mile journey yourself. I certainly would. It probably wouldn't cost more overall (taking into account wear and tear) and it wouldn't be tiring. I agree that 45p per mile is too much but it is also quite tight to expect to just divide petrol costs too and for the driver to also pay a share of this. I would offer to pay all petrol costs if someone drove me that far.

Maybe you should think about what this says about your own character too?

Good suggestion, Tsunami. What would you say it says about me?

YANBU.

Personally, I would split the cost of petrol used between the amount of people in the car.

I would also accept a driver splitting the cost of petrol used between just the passengers in the car - as the driver has done the driving & had the wear and tear on her car.

Charging 45p per mile to EACH passenger is way OTT. One is not supposed to make a profit from one's friends! (Unless providing a service as a business obviously).

I went out with a friend a week or so ago. She was going anyway.

Petrol was about £20. She wanted to accept £10 but I gave her £20 as I was grateful that she had driven as I don't like motorway driving.

If we'd gone by HMRC mileage rates it would have been £70 (or £35 if we halved it). It looks like I got a good deal.

The way I understand it, that figure is intended for people claiming back tax for mileage they've used for business purposes, NOT for charging your friends for lifts! But I'm prepared to be told that I'm wrong here.

Yes, that's what the figure is intended for. But the point is, it's an official figure that gives what is supposed to be fair compensation for using a car for a journey. Changing the purpose of a journey doesn't change the cost, so it seems reasonable to use it for any journey where you need to charge back the cost.

Good suggestion, Tsunami. What would you say it says about me?

That maybe you're a bit tight with money and don't appreciate what other people do for you? That your friend actually did have more costs than just the petrol for this journey? That the journey was extra tiring for her as she was driving but she still paid her fair share?

After all, the other option is for them to pay much more and go by coach/train/taxi.

The thing is I don't actually find that the train is necessarily more expensive, especially if you book far enough in advance. For one of the journeys last year I looked into tickets 12 weeks in advance (when they were first released) and they were incredibly cheap. But when I sent a message to everyone suggesting that we all book those ASAP, this friend said she was thinking of driving instead.

If it makes a difference to your opinion of me I do in fact have a licence and have previously owned a car. I just don't drive now.

I mean, its a bit formal, but I don't think its that unreasonable. I have driven places with friends that we would have otherwise taken the train +taxis.

If it was 200 miles, it would be £90. If 4 of you were in the car, that would mean £22.50 per person. I don't think that is a ridiculous rate to pay for a ride, at all! Actually seems like a bargain. You would pay so much more for a train +taxis. Plus she did all the work of driving!

If she wanted to charge you 500 per mile she could. It's her car. But it needed to be talked about in advance and that was your responsibility too. She charges what she likes then you choose.

Sorry, I had xposted. If the 45p was split between all of you including her then I don't think it's that stingy after all . 🤷🏻‍♀️ In fact I think it's ok. It's not a figure that she has made up.

You could argue that it was tightarse of the people getting the lift NOT to pay their portion of the 45p. Why should the driver effectively subsidize their trip especially when she is doing the driving too!

I think YABU for wanting to pay less than your fair share.

That maybe you're a bit tight with money and don't appreciate what other people do for you? That your friend actually did have more costs than just the petrol for this journey? That the journey was extra tiring for her as she was driving but she still paid her fair share?

All valid points and I do indeed absolutely appreciate those things. I've always thanked my friend for driving, of course!

My question is whether or not people think the 45p/mile rate is fair for this situation. It feels a little high to me but obviously not everyone agrees.