To think that the 45p 'business travel mileage' rate isn't for lifts between friends?

[MelodyNelson10]

This is about something that's kind of over and done with now, so I'm not really looking for advice but I'm still really curious to see whether most people think AIBU or not.

My friend gave me (and others) a lift in a her car a few times last year and the year before. These were for pretty long distances, a couple of hundred miles or so, when we were going to some events together. A hen party of a mutual friend and a music festival, for example.

I'm obviously very grateful to her for driving all that distance. However, at the end of the journey when we asked 'how much do we owe you for petrol?' she would always say that she needed to work it out according to the government's per-mile figure to factor in wear and tear etc. That figure is 45p per mile, waaaay more than just the cost of petrol.

Was this fair? The way I understand it, that figure is intended for people claiming back tax for mileage they've used for business purposes, NOT for charging your friends for lifts! But I'm prepared to be told that I'm wrong here.

I haven't accepted a lift from her in a while and don't intend to, so it's kind of a moot point now anyway. But we are still friends and it plays on my mind sometimes as I can't help feeling like there's something a bit off about the whole thing.

So... AIBU?

I do think she's unusual in doing it this way, most people would take petrol money or nothing. But she's not wrong, if costs are going to be shared then this probably is the most accurate easy way to do it. I suppose only someone who has claimed mileage from work would think to do it this way.

I like the suggestion of splitting petrol, parking and snacks between all the non-drivers so that the driver doesn't pay anything, in return for the effort of driving.

My maths isn't good enough to work out whether that would have ended up costing more or less in these particular situations, but I'll bear it in mind in future.

The RAC has it actually at 55.8p per mile on average to run a car.

Yes, your train ticket may have been cheaper. But would you have the flexibility of a car plus all the taxis you would have had to book with your luggage.

The more I think about it, I really don't think your friend is being unreasonable at all here. In fact, I think it is a really fair way to split it.

In the future, I would suggest you just book your train tickets by yourself if you do not want to split costs or be in a situation with money and friends.

I think you've had a pretty decent deal TBH. If say 3 of you you're paying 15p a mile. So that means a 200 mile trip is costing you £30 which isn't bad really.

YANBU if I was going somewhere with a friend who was going anyway I'd normally buy lunch or pay for parking (dependant on how far we were going) at most I'd give them £20 they are going anyway.

The RAC has it actually at 55.8p per mile on average to run a car.

Interesting! Thanks.

One of many reasons I'm glad that I don't drive any more

Melody
Your "friend" should only charge the petrol amount, not the use of car amount - around 13p per mile
quote the HMRC figures back at her
www.gov.uk/government/publications/advisory-fuel-rates/advisory-fuel-rates-from-1-march-2016

My maths isn't good enough to work out whether that would have ended up costing more or less in these particular situations, but I'll bear it in mind in future.

If it was a 300 mile journey the petrol would have cost roughly £45. It'd be a 5-6 hour journey so probably 2 stops for snacks, £4 per head for 4 people per stop = £32. Total cost £77 so if you split this between 3 non-drivers it'd be £26 per person.

Milage divided by all for would come to £34. So you'd be paying a bit more if you chose the milage option but not crazy amounts.

My question is whether or not people think the 45p/mile rate is fair for this situation. It feels a little high to me but obviously not everyone agrees.

The government thinks 45p is fair compensation, so if you want to argue it's wrong, you have to be more of an expert on car running costs than presumably a team of civil servants who considered the matter extensively before writing it into law.

Or, an alternative way of looking at it. It doesn't matter how accurately it represents the true costs, all that matters is it's an official figure and therefor difficult to argue against. Without it, everyone would have their own idea of what costs should be, and there might be arguments or bad feeling. (Or perhaps I should say worse arguments or bad feeling, given that you're still not happy.)

Passenger payment is only 5p per passenger.

6p per passenger for our expenses

Travel etiquette in our family has always been you share the price of the petrol..
Petrol for journey was £60 for 500 miles,
I was going anyway. So I won't charge for Wear and Tear.
£30 for two people,

£20 for three people.
However if the car was full with 4 passengers we would all have given her £20, as £15 for a journey that long would have seemed silly, and yes she would have made a profit on that journey.
Yes we would have paid for her lunch as well as a thanks.
If she was claiming mileage I would still have offered to pay for a nice meal to say thanks as that would have been £225 for the trip, way too much profit for the driver to take petrol off anyone.

THE full shebang
www.gov.uk/government/publications/rates-and-allowances-travel-mileage-and-fuel-allowances/travel-mileage-and-fuel-rates-and-allowances

Why do people think that the HMRC would overestimate the cost of driving a car? They don't tend to be over generous. If your friend is driving an old car then the cost/mile would be lower but if it is a new car it will probably be a lot higher once you take into account the drop in the value of the car due to the increased mileage,

The government thinks 45p is fair compensation, so if you want to argue it's wrong, you have to be more of an expert on car running costs than presumably a team of civil servants who considered the matter extensively before writing it into law.

OK, I obviously wasn't asking whether or not the government had calculated the figure correctly!

I was asking whether it's appropriate to apply that figure to a non-business situation like this, between friends, where it has nothing to do with claiming back tax.

I felt like my friend had incorrectly taken that figure and applied it to a totally different scenario. But many people clearly think it's a fair price regardless of what it's intended for, and that's fair enough.

200 mile journey @ 45p a mile = £90
3 passengers @ £90 a head = £270
Coining it!
Your friend is taking the piss

Err sandsunsea maybe you need to read properly

Yes, sorry if the OP wasn't clear! 45p EACH really would be taking the piss.

Il get ma coat!

What car has she got? Mine works out about 50p a mile but if I offered someone a lift I wouldn't charge,

The difference is that she does work journeys because work ask her to.
When she's giving you a lift, that's presumably a journey that she'd be doing herself anyway so she'd be incurring the wear and tear anyway.

Anything more than splitting the petrol costs between everyone in the car (including her!) is just her being greedy imo

I've never come across anyone who charges their friends petrol money if they give them a lift to somewhere they are going anyway. I have never paid, nor been paid, petrol money. It seems to be a Mumsnet thing though. However, if someone gives me a lift, I will pay parking, lunch etc. to show my appreciation. My friends would do the same. Mind you, everyone I know drives so would reciprocate.

I've given loads of kids lifts to sporting events, some of whom have given my child a lift in return but most haven't as I like to attend the events. I wouldn't take anything from the parents and have never been offered, as I am going anyway.

I just find this whole mumsnet thing of charging petrol money weird, particularly for a one off. And charging mileage, when you are the one who said you wanted to drive rather than taking the train, as suggested by the OP, is particularly tight. I think the formality is what makes it most tight and feeling it's a bit off does not suggest the OP is tight at all.

I've never come across anyone who charges their friends petrol money if they give them a lift to somewhere they are going anyway.

I have. I stayed with a friend last month at her invitation and she chose a couple of places to go and drove long distance. She then asked me for money for a full tank of petrol........! She chose the place that was long distance I didnt want to go to it.