Why can't Teacher training be done in summer holidays

[daffodil10]

Why do summer holidays need to be extended by 3 days to cover inset days when teachers have had 6 weeks off. And before I get shot down I realise they may have been in school over the holidays etc. But what is the point in going back to school on a Thursday

Do people realise a teachers contract states the work about 30 hrs a week. (Contracts range from 29.15-32.5 hrs).

The contract just covers direct time they are teaching - e.g. When school is open.
Yet everyone knows they work usually from 8-6 and then during half terms/ holidays etc planning/writing reports/classroom preparation.

The fact you want them to train during their 'holiday' when no one would agree to that imo highlights why children's lack of respect for teachers exists - it's passed down from their elders peers.

MSLehrerin

You're right. I do know bugger all about pedagogy. Ah well I will go home and bitch about how easy teachers have it with three month holidays a year and refuse to pay anything extra. Let's just keep the status quo then.

@Garliccalamari stop being ridiculous. Your proposal of kids and teachers having 11ish days away from their desks was utterly insulting and unworkable. It's been explained why.

Childcare is not the problem of schools and the education system. It's a problem parents need to address if it applies to them.

Your solution is untenable and you admit you know little about the English education system.

I think we need to look at more affordable and quality childcare solutions rather than interfering with a centuries old and world leading education system.

😂😂😂 Garlic. That's right, get miffed because we don't think much of your ridiculous suggestion.

Even if this after school childcare was a thing, where would you put all the kids? Assuming many or most would stay here. You can't stay outside with them all year. Most primary schools have halls that will fit them, but not comfortably. They can't go into the classrooms as that would get in the way of the teacher doing their prep (and cleaners cleaning up - I don't want my room left looking like a bomb hit it!).

@Liadain With suggestions as ridiculous and insulting as this @Garliccalamari could work for Ofsted! 😃🙄

Can you imagine with kids in school all year round the fight for annual leave at work that coincides with very limited children's holidays? Holiday prices would go through the roof then too!

@noblegiraffe exactly.

I'm in our staff base at the moment, sharing the proposal with my three colleagues beside me. I'm surprised you can't hear the laughter 🚀😂

Folk who know nothing about the world of education telling us how to improve things! They could move on to the police, NHS and Fire Service next??

You all answer in arrogance and only one of you has actually tried to discuss things with me. You are all now laughing at me. You could also explain things instead off this bullyish behaviour. You say that my idea is ridiculous. Maybe it is. I have said that I don't know. I am not a teacher or in the U.K. . I have also pointed out several problems. You don't sound like you want to solve problems, I have only seen you ask for more money.

I strongly dislike being laughed at when I'm trying out some ideas. I said I didn't do the maths and was thinking out loud. Is this what you teach your children? Don't tell us your ideas because it's ridiculous? I've really just now lost my respect for your profession.

^It's simple:
OP: AIBU ....
Consensus: yes you are because...
OP: ah right. That makes sense to me.

That only works if after the last sentence people stop having a go at the OP for the thing she's already apologised for. Two way street. Good grace shown on both sides.

😂😂😂

Very entertaining strop. A+.

We don't think much of your suggestion because it blatantly wouldn't work, as has been explained to you. And in any case - education is my concern as a teacher. The childcare issues of parents should be sorted out by parents.

I strongly dislike being laughed at when I'm trying out some ideas People laugh because they're silly.

I am not a teacher or in the U.K. You don't have to be the first, but if you post from outside the UK, have the nous to look up the relevant conditions of service for UK teachers. Or accept being corrected.

I said I didn't do the maths and was thinking out loud you've had your proposals addressed by those who can do the maths.

Garlic, with the greatest respect I think the ideas you propose have already been considered and rejected because firstly there is not enough public money to pay teachers for the amount of non contact time they actually require to meet the demands of the job, and secondly because there is not enough money in the average family budget to factor in the cost of private childcare for all children every afternoon. Because nobody wants to pay, the system can only rum as it stands using the unpaid goodwill of teachers.

I don't wish to deter anyone from thinking outside the box but you can't get offended if your ideas just don't work.

Aside from everything that's already been said, the moaning coming from parents because they have to pay for childcare, ask grandparents to have their children, find care in the holidays etc is absolutely ridiculous because it was YOUR choice to have children! Surely when you popped them out you realised that they'd need to be looked after? I can't comprehend the entitlement!

Garliccalamari I can see where you are coming from and it's not fundamentally a bad idea - unfortunately the maths just doesn't work.

Currently children are in school for 5.5 hours a day for 190 days a year which is 1045 hours of education per year.

If school holidays were just 28 weekdays a year to match a standard office worker's annual leave, the remaining weekdays available for education are 233.

1045 hours divided over 233 days of education is 4.5 hours per day. So you would be asking teachers to give up 43 days of holiday in exchange for just one hour a day less workload.

The additional work that teachers do over and above school hours is typically at least 4 hours a day so the teachers would still be exhausted and working into the evening, but would just have lost the recovery time.

Kids would also lose out - they need the holidays to rest their brains a bit and run around in the sunshine.

The solution as pp said is really to employ more teachers so that each teacher only has 4 hours teaching and 3 hours preparation/marking each day, then we wouldn't have so many qualified and talented teachers leaving the profession in droves, broken. That would require more taxes of course.

Thay's fine. I will accept that my ideas don't work. But I also fail to see how more money will help reduce the workload in the evening for teachers. Or make their hours more "normal". Money is just that, money. It's what you buy with it that matters. It can also be found with good ideas.

Yesterday I got word that we got 350.000 euro to spend on a one day thing for a hospital. We just told them our idea a few weeks ago in 1 email, had a few meetings and got it. I do that about 5-6 times a year in my own time with a friend. Money can be found but you have to have a solution for someones needs or you won't get it. I don't know about education (health care is my thing) but I read about a lot of needs there.

Corilla, of vourse I didn't read your post while I was typing so you can disregard the first paragraph

I'm not a teacher, but I do work in a school (in IT). I took a £30,000 pay cut to work here. I don't get much more than living wage, whereas my last contract job paid £250 per day. So here's a thought OP - take a £30,000 pay cut and see whether you get get a job paid just above living wage, so you can enjoy the long holidays (during which I can't 'get another job' because I have school-age children of my own). But I must warn you, I had to fight off 40 other people to get this job. And yes, I have to find cover for my own children when I have to come in and work unpaid, which is inconvenient, but you get to spend that time with your children - enjoy it rather than bleating about how you have to take a couple of days of your precious holiday to spend with your family.

Just to be clear: the project gets 350.000 euro. I work for a thank you because I believe in it.

Oh, and before it starts teacher's don't get paid for holidays. My contract is 195 days a year

I'm glad you said this - I was always under the impression that teachers didn't get paid for their "long holidays" but instead their salaries were annualised out so that 10 months' salary is paid over 12 months.

I think going back to school on a Thursday after the long break is a great idea. Its a gentle return to the school year for little people who have been out of the normal routine for so long. A couple of days to settle in before getting down to the real work starting on the Monday. I personally don't think that kids have enough time off, just being kids and enjoying the company of their family and friends. I totally appreciate however that this is not at all practical for the majority of families. IMO if you want the perks of being a teacher then be a teacher, otherwise enjoy the annual leave you are entitled to in your chosen career!!

I'm a working mum with average holiday entitlement. With so many working parents nowadays I think the school holidays are far too long!!!! Inset days just add insult to injury (in terms of childcare/costs) to the average working parents. We do t all have endless cash for childcare payments or grandparents down the road. Most parents get on average 5 weeks paid holiday. I think teachers should have 5 weeks paid holiday. If the teachers need to do some teacher training that's fine but I wonder why they can't keep the school open and organise some outside sports childcare providers to cover the day. Thus giving the teachers a chance to train, the children a fun sports activity day and the working parents a day of childcare where their kids are safe, being educated and taken care of. Maybe some on here might suggest that mothers should be at home full time. But in reality how many can afford this nowadays. I set days have caused me so much stress in terms of juggling my childcare (I have no help) my finances (childcare costs are crippling us) plus keeping my employer happy (my kids come before my job, but I need my job) I just do t think it's acceptable in this day and age to say teacher just don't work for THREE months of the year! Close the schools! These teachers 'deserve' these excessively long holidays so much more then the rest of us with a mere 5 weeks of annual leave entitlement! Why can't schools open longer and offer the extra curricular activities between the term times. Music sport etc etc etc. Outside childcare providers are cashing in on the current state of play and parents are being charged extortionately for all these school closure days. I'd rather pay more in my taxes to see schoolcare provision increase and schools to extend their opening hours in line with nurseries....

inset days just add insult to injury

Another who's ranted without reading the facts.

@Shellygirl78 I've now said it about 4/5 times on this thread. Schools do not exist to provide working parents with childcare!

It's your job as a working parent to arrange childcare. Why should my work terms and conditions change just to allow working parents to do their own jobs?!! How unfair is that?

It's a lifestyle choice to have kids. If you can't provide care for them then don't have them? Simples?

I just do t think it's acceptable in this day and age to say teacher just don't work for THREE months of the year!

But the kids aren't in school. What do you want us to do to stop us having long holidays? Teach empty classrooms?

Or do you actually want your kids to have no holidays and no time to just be kids?

Why can't schools open longer and offer the extra curricular activities between the term times.

When would building and maintenance work be done if school buildings were in use year round?