To refuse to buy DS age 12 Grand Theft Auto?

[mrsmootoo]

DS, 12, has started asking for GTA because 'all his friends have it'. I have looked at various online discussion sites, some of which have parents who say it's not that bad; others feel the language and sex is OTT. I have discovered that DS does in fact have some '18' games and these do seem very violent, sadly, so maybe I'm being unreasonable about GTA. DS is at great pains to try and explain to me the difference between the 'story' game which you apparently have to download once you've bought the disc, and the 'playing online' version which he could do with his friends and supposedly doesn't have all the sex in it. Any thoughts welcome!

Im normally pretty laid back about age ratings but NO WAY is Gta 5 appropriate for a 12 year old! The online multiplayer still has a strip club with various lingerie clad strippers you can get topless lap dances off, and if you have a microphone theres a flirt meter that you talking into the mic (encouraging dirty talk but really any noise fills the bar) and there are still prostitutes you can pick up and choose what 'service' you want, complete with moaning and dirty talk from the prostitute. Theres a LOT of swearing and inuendo. Thats before the violence, and other players is a BIG issue. Unless he only goes in private lobbies, there are some horrible people on there, the language and abuse has been enough to disgust/shock me and im an adult. I get embarrassed playing the game if my dad is about because of the content and im 27! 16 is the minimum id let play it. Call of duty really isnt so bad content wise, 14 even 13 if the kid is maturer than average. Its again the possible abuse from other players thats worst on cod. They tend to pick on kids (can tell by voice) and females.

I let mine have the GTA games when he wanted them which was probably about the same age. I game a lot and played GTA back when it was a top down but never bothered with the later ones. When I got round to playing it myself I regretted it but in a "D'oh I should have played this first and made him wait" rather than "OMG what have I done?!".

He was playing COD when he was 8, the only thing that bothers me about that is the pisstaking price and over priced reskinned maps.

We had the same with DS at that age. We told him he could have only age appropriate games and have held the line ever since. Of course he can see loads of other innapropriate stuff if he wants to but this is something we could control and we have.

I too find it frustrating that other parents who I thought were on the same wavelength allow it. Its also frustrating that there are hardly any popular games for Xbox that aren't 18 rated. The kids want to be able to play with their friends online and I felt bad for my DS that our standpoint excluded him from something his friends were doing.

As my DS had got older we have been through similar situations over alcohol, staying out late etc. So far DS has managed to have a reasonable social life in spite of this. When he is 18 he can do what he likes - he hasn't got long to go ...

My 13 year old brother is obsessed with online gaming and he has little of a social life at the moment, beyond his friends who also game with him.

LadyHonoriaDedlock

Haven't read tft but I asked my 16yr old and he said no fcukin way. He and his mates wouldn't go near it because they have female friends.

That is lovely to hear! I am working hard to raise my boys into teens who would feel the same way. You should both be proud

Agree ImAGoner her son sounds great.

CherryMix, my boys are 12 and nearly 10, and I carefully review all media before allowing it. It is sad that so many others let their kids play whatever they want, but we have found some great games that they can play online with family and friends. My oldest D's absolute favourite is Forza Horizon 3, but there are others as well. Off the top of my head, Plants vs Zombies Garden Warfare, Minecraft and Lego Worlds are all big hits and fun to play with others.

When my son at 15 got his 1st console, GTA was amongst about 3 or 4 titles that were permanently banned regardless of his increasing age.

I told him sex, violence, knives and guns were not entertainment.

Yanbu op.

Noblegiraffe, loosen your judgy pants a bit hey? If an adult wants to play a game with certain elements in it that you disagree with, how is that affecting you?

Oh Daydreamer, how is my judging affecting you?

A game exists where you can have sex with and murder prostitutes, for fun. Where you can torture someone for fun. I'm not going to step back from thinking such a game should not exist and that it's not good for society that it does. I think the influence of such games in which you are an active participant (which can be very immersive and realistic) would be quite insidious and I don't think desensitisation is a positive thing.

You can have sex with and murder prostitutes if you want to. You can also play through the game without ever doing those things. You can also have sex with prostitutes and not kill them afterwards. The choice is on the player. I don't use that feature but to me it's like the hunting of animals in Far Cry. I don't like those features but I like the overall game.

The thing is though, why is a side activity of one game enough to condemn it? I am not comfortable with the killing of prostitutes in game so I don't do that. But I'm also very aware that it's just a game. Games like movies often have themes I don't like. Games are often allowing the player to do things they would never do in real life. For example in the Sims I can play as a burglar and steal things from people's homes and community lots, I can be a marriage wrecker and pop out babies with multiple men whilst ignoring the needs of my existing children to the point they are are removed by social services. Sims can have sex or woohoo on a casual basis, they can even have clubs for that purpose should the player want too, hell you can even set up clubs with the some intention of fighting other people, if that happens to include women so be it.

I can kill children, adults and the elderly by locking them in a swimming pool and remove the ladder, I can become a gold digger and kill off my spouse once he's no longer useful and get all his or her money. Adults can attack children and let the fur fly. Children can shove their parents.

All of this is unmodded and all possible in one version or another. (As I said before there are some quite worrying mods out there and as adding mods is quite simple, I would be concerned if I had a child playing, to ensure they weren't modding it!)

And while that's very extreme behaviour and there is a lot more to the game than that, my point is it is possible and there's not many parents that object to it. Is it because graphically it doesn't look the same? Is it because there's no swearing? Is it because the violence is more comical and not as realistic as GTA?

Back in the original game, the developers encouraged players to get rid of unwanted sims by building a 2x2 pool, tell the sims to get in and then remove the ladder so the sims will drown. It's in the Guide. But that seems to be acceptable. Whereas one part of GTA is enough to condemn it even though it's so much more than that.

I'm not sure how saying that you can do grim things in Sims is supposed to be a defence of GTA. That you can have babies with multiple fathers (?? That's not even illegal in real life) in Sims does not make it ok that you can murder prostitutes you've paid for sex with and steal your money back in GTA.

Yes, realism is of course part of the issue. Leaving a tamagotchi unfed so it dies, or turning up the rollercoaster speed in Theme Park so the little figures fly off the end is hardly on the same scale as the torture scene in GTA which is part of the story. www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-09-16-is-the-most-disturbing-scene-in-gta5-justified

The other issue is the game portrayal of women in general. Ok so you don't have to murder prostitutes to play the game. Is there any option to play the game (the actual game, not the sightseeing and golf-playing that defenders seem to insist is what everyone really does) with women as anything other than a seedy sideshow?

I'm not saying that the choices you make in the sims (however dubious) make it okay for prostitutes to be used and then killed after. My point is there are plenty of things you can do in other games that aren't legal and you may not want children thinking is an acceptable way to behave.

Because the graphics styles are different, that shouldn't be okay for one to allow a player to kill women in one game but it's okay in a different game because it doesn't look as real.The Sims aren't as realistic looking but they are realistic enough to portray the actions so you can immediately tell what is happening.

I know of a guy with a wife and daughter who admitted he uses the sims games to torture women and children by setting them on fire and keeping them locked in a room starving. He would write stories about it.Guy was very disturbed and I thought at the time it's sick and that view hasn't changed. His real life opinion of women is very low and I was disturbed that he was using the Sims to only play that scenario. (Not speculation, he admitted it) Is that what EA want with the game? Of course not. But it's possible and I wouldn't want a child to see that kind of thing either or indeed any of the adult mods.

To the same token I think if you buy GTA with the sole purpose of finding a prostitute, having sex with her then killing her then that's also wrong and says far more about the person then the game. Do I think it's entertainment? No. Do I like the feature and use it? No.I would not feel comfortable with a child seeing it but then I don't feel comfortable with a child playing GTA full stop.

Say no and stick to it . You're his parent not his friend .

I refused to let my 15 year old DS's have GTA (he first asked age 12, as all his friends had it.... Err not true & they moved into COD etc). I let him have certain 18 games - war/ shoot tactic ones - is a sensible boy, and totally understood that I object to GTA.

I agree with pp that a good starting point is to watch videos of game play on YouTube. If you find a bad one, watch it with the child and ask them about it.

Our 9yo recently bought a second-hand xbox which came with a load of games. He plays Fifa exclusively but was slightly put out that DH removed GTA and ?COD (iirc) with a booming laugh and a "you must be kidding".

We consider ratings advisory in this house (especially 12 on films we've already seen), but some are spot on.

I think the "you don't have to rape/betray/eviscerate" argument is good when considering whether a game has any merit at all, but irrelevant in the context of allowing a 12yo child to play the game. Because although he doesn't have to, he can, and that's across the line for me.

I think comparing to older editions is complicated because AI and graphics are so much better nowadays, not to mention the advent of VR.

Haven't read tft but I asked my 16yr old and he said no fcukin way. He and his mates wouldn't go near it because they have female friends.

Hahahaha, your son is a good actor if he's got you believing that. There's no 16 year old on this planet (and certainly not a group of them) that would refuse the chance to play GTA if offered. Oddly, my own 16 year olds seem to be able to separate fiction from reality and understand that something in a game doesn't mean you are disrespectful to women in real life...

I know of a guy with a wife and daughter who admitted he uses the sims games to torture women and children by setting them on fire and keeping them locked in a room starving.

Well that's pretty horrible isn't it? From what has been said on here about Sims I don't think I'll be buying that any time soon either. I did play Sim City quite a lot back in the day but it sounds like things have got a bit darker...

The Sims and Sim City are in no way comparable.

The Sims and Sim City are different game serious. The Sims have always been a bit dark.

*series

that shouldn't be okay for one to allow a player to kill women in one game but it's okay in a different game because it doesn't look as real

I think if you were going to get rid of all killing from all computer games you wouldn't be left with much, would you? I spent a lot of time shooting TIE fighters etc in Rebel Assault 2 back in the 90s. Do I think that's a problem? Of course not. Where exactly is the line? Not sure. Does GTA cross it? Yes.

Noblegiraffe Its vile and I've often wondered if his wife knew exactly what he's doing in the game. I'm not sure if he plays games like GTA but he probably doesn't need to if he's getting sick kicks from the Sims.

The sims 4 is the tamest out of the 4. Sims are harder to kill and a lot of the things like blowing things up isn't in the game. But again with imagination it's not hard to act out scenarios and once you start adding in mods the game can get a lot darker. Who the hell would want to create a domestic violence mod? I just don't get it.

That being said that aside it's a great game. You don't have to play it that way, the same way you can play GTA without ever going to a prostitute.

Oh come on, The Sims and GTA are not remotely comparable.

One of the big differences is you kill sims as "God". That is you can't make another sim set fire or murder another. You have to enter into "build" mode and change your house then place your sim where you want them. You don't do it via a game avatar. The sims has a minuscule amount of very cartoony violence in it.

You can play GTA without going to a prostitute, but as I understand it, if you want to play the game proper, you have to do the torturing? The thing with GTA is that it's actual title is a crime - the game is deliberately designed for killing, torture and criminal activity. It's not just a side-option.

Like I said, I haven't played Sims. Is the game sold as somewhere you can beat up your wife and abandon your kids? Is it a natural follow-on from normal gameplay?