To refuse to buy DS age 12 Grand Theft Auto?

[mrsmootoo]

DS, 12, has started asking for GTA because 'all his friends have it'. I have looked at various online discussion sites, some of which have parents who say it's not that bad; others feel the language and sex is OTT. I have discovered that DS does in fact have some '18' games and these do seem very violent, sadly, so maybe I'm being unreasonable about GTA. DS is at great pains to try and explain to me the difference between the 'story' game which you apparently have to download once you've bought the disc, and the 'playing online' version which he could do with his friends and supposedly doesn't have all the sex in it. Any thoughts welcome!

There's no 'kidnap and force' involved.

I see, so it's only rape if there's kidnap and force involved? See, that sort of statement isn't going to improve my opinion of your ability to assess the problems with this game.

Edmund do you have shares in GTA?

noblegiraffe you don't seem to realise your talking about computer generated characters, not real women. The subject of 'I consented to sex as long as the guy doesn't run me over after' is a rather ridiculous one in this context. No real person would consent to sex knowing you'd get run over after, and no one is saying that behaviour is ok.

You can make a lot of 'evil' choices in this game, but at the end of the day, that's all it is - a game, for adults. It's not a free-pass to do all of these things in real life, as much as watching GoT makes it right to crossbow prostitutes or shag your own family members. It's a case of using your brain and realising just because these things are in the entertainment we see, it's not saying that entertaining platform is condoning or encouraging this as 'normal behaviour'.

My 14 year old has COD but is not allowed GTA. Within the first few minutes they are exposed to rape and torture.

I spoke to a 20 something gamer who works in Game about it and he was categoric that it was not suitable for under 18's.

you don't seem to realise your talking about computer generated characters, not real women.

Then why are you objecting to me calling that particular action rape? Have you done it in the game? Why is it fine to talk about murdering prostitutes but having rape as an element of the game (which in real life if a guy shagged a prostitute and murdered her it would absolutely be called that) is an issue with you?

Oh I see the "I would never have it in my house" brigade are out in force. Would you own a copy of Basic Instinct - things happen in that that are way more objectionable than GTA! Own any albums by John Lennon? Hope you're OK supporting a man who beat his wife in front of their young child.

Point is - banning things outright is stupid, and there are worse games out there in terms of sex and violence than GTA. Why not play them or read reviews and make a decision? I can't imagine ever refusing to let my future adult DCs buy a product with their own money and bring it in my house. What a ridiculous statement!

Iggi999, not at all. Just find the hysteria over the series rather ridiculous. It's themes are violent, but there are similar and worse out there. It's silly that this is the only thing that gets the 'doesn't come into my house!' treatment.

No one has given one example of other things they've 'banned', often their kids will bring in/watch worse as the parents pat themselves on the back about keeping GTA out. Of course, any parent has the right to tell their under-18s they're not allowed to have it, but I don't see how they can ban an adult with their own money from doing so or police any other media they deemed 'inappropriate'. Do these same parents still actually look up their kids games when they turn 18? For all the 'I'd be the same about other games', I actually highly doubt that, especially when older children buy their own games or borrow them from friends.

I play GTA it isn't a children's game not because of prostitution but the violence, torture and the "evilness" of the game! At 16 I'd happily let my DD play the game but she's sensible and worldly I judge parents that let children play GTA its the worst game for children a parent from school let their 7 year old play it and in the chat they're so many young kids always little shits I'd personally be worried about them been groomed through the game too.

Why not play them or read reviews and make a decision

The assumption that someone's mind could be changed about the rape and murder element after reading some reviews saying 'oh but the physics engine is great' is a bit weird.

My DP's cousins aged 11 and 12 were playing it on holiday, they couldn't understand the language (don't speak English) so apparently it was ok.

Until the scenes in the lapdancing club, or strip club, then the mission where you secretly photographed a couple having sex. Then the mission where you smoke a big joint and get high and have to kill aliens or something.

They may not understand the language but I'm sure if the started saying "motherf*cking turd" in the playground someone might get the jist....

Err, you do realise you don't have to rape anyone in them, right? Just like you don't have to blow up helicopters or run over pedestrians, if you don't want to.

At the end of the day, it's a game, not real life. Rape and murder are in the game because they're in the real world. Do you object to any rape storyline in a film or TV show? If not, why not?

noblegiraffe, but it's not real life. It's programming, code and graphics. It's not comparable to real life. You are the one looking to make this into an 'issue', when no one would actually condone this behaviour or any other violence in the game.

None of the behaviour in the game is 'socially acceptable' but it's just a game and those mature enough to play it understand that. Millions have played it, it's not lead to millions saying or actually killing sex workers after engaging in their services. Are you suggesting people are too stupid to know that this behaviour isn't ok if they see it in a game?

I'm in the same boat as you OP. My DS 12 also badgers me constantly claiming that 'all his friends have it'. Sadly a lot of them do, typically because they have older siblings that own it/play it.

I'm sticking to my guns on this one, it's a no from me.

I agree about the Sims Edmund (and I say that as someone who played the Sims as a kid and still play now) No one ever batted an eyelid that I could drown sims (adults and children) in a pool or lock them up and set the room on fire should I want to.

There's mods for the sims 4 that include prostitution, extreme violence, drug dealing and even a domestic violence mod which is just sick to me but no one ever criticises that!

but it's not real life.

I know. But isn't it interesting that you're happy to defend the game when we're talking about violence, torture, murder, but something inside you resists when we label a certain behaviour available in the game 'rape'. Like I said, in real life, it would be rape to have sex with and murder a prostitute, so why not call it that in the game? It's not real life after all.

The thing is, I don't want a game in my house that has a rape option. You don't want a game with a rape option either, because obviously that would be repugnant. But you like the game that it's in, so you're tying yourself in knots to avoid calling it rape. It's fascinating.

Just thought I'd give my two cents. I am a 25 year old man.

I grew up playing GTA 3, GTA Vice City, GTA San Andreas, GTA 4 and now GTA 5. I got GTA 3 in year 6, age 10.

When your kids are telling you that all their friends have it they're not lying to you. All of my friends had it. Yes they're 18 rates games but it depends on the individual and their emotional maturity which should determine whether they should be allowed to play it or not imo.

The game, like real life, involves murder, drugs, prostitution etc. The latter being a very small optional part of the game. In free roam it is as violent or calm as you want it to be. You're in control. As a kid me and my friends found it funny to live like a normal person. Driving legally and stopping at traffic lights, going for food, getting a hair cut. All sorts.

In GTA 5 you can play golf and tennis. Play darts. Race with friends. You can even be a taxi driver. There are countless things to do that do not involve violence in any way shape or form.

I am due to have my first child later this year. I would have no issue with him playing this type of game when he is older assuming I felt he was mature enough to handle it.

A big argument for kids not playing GTA is that they will replicate what they see in game in real life. Myself and everyone I know who have played the GTA series while growing up are all now well adjusted adults with families and good jobs. I can confirm I have never had sex with a prostitute and then proceeded to run her over with my car after paying her. Shocking, I know.

I don't have any objections to having a game with a rape option in it in my house, just like I don't object to owning a film or book with a rape scene in it. Drama relies on things that happen in real life to create storylines, and sometimes those things are awful.

I wouldn't let my kids play it when they were 12, but if they're old enough to go and die in a war, I'm not really sure how you would enforce a ban on them owning a copy paid for with their own money. If you had a lodger, would you try and enforce the ban?

There hasn't been a GTA released for ages, IIRC?
It seems strange that his friends are all still playing it.

My favourite joke on this is by Marcus Brigstocke: "If Pac-Man had affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music."

YANBU

assuming I felt he was mature enough to handle it.

Mature enough to handle what? Playing golf and getting a haircut? There are other games available. There's no point in going on about all the things you can do in the game that are not sex and violence then saying you'd allow your child to play it if they are mature enough. Because that means you're expecting them to engage with the other elements.

@BabychamSocialist is that how raves came about then?

I don't have any objections to having a game with a rape option in it in my house, just like I don't object to owning a film or book with a rape scene in it

There's a difference between being a passive observer and an active participant. There's a difference between a rape scene that drives the plot or sets up a character and one that is there for pure entertainment purposes.

If my child wanted to play a golfing game then I'd get them a golf simulation game. Ditto playing tennis, driving/racing cars, and making food. I wouldn't get them a game that uses its violence and adult themes as a marketing point.

I've played GTA games and they are not suitable for children due to their adult content. I'm not worried about my child replicating what they see, I'm worried about exposing them to themes and concepts that are entirely too complex for them because they are children.

I got GTA 3 in year 6, age 10.

And also, your parents are dicks.