Hotel restaurant and iPads etc

[mckenzie]

We are on holiday and staying in a hotel with breakfast included.
Settle nicely at a table this morning, in the shade, over lookimgbthe gardens, watching the birds on the ledge. A family then take the table next to us.

The older child (I'm guessing age 5) is given an iPad and starts playing a game with noice so we can hear ping and pong and clapping and other computer type noises.
The younger child (I'm guessing 18 months) has a phone propped up in front of her and is watching a video of some sort so we can hear high pitched animated voices and weird music.

AIBU to expect the family to think of others and provide said children with headphones?

Lottapianos yes I don't get why they're supposed to make kids smarter!

I just see the crazed look in their eyes and see addiction - which I am the first to admit I struggle with in my own smartphone use.

It's that horrible nervy feeling you get after 15 minutes scrolling through Facebook or even something as 'improving' as the Guardian (!) and you realise that actually more time has passed ythan you thought and you're in a kind of twitchy, anxious state that takes several minutes to dissipate. Or is that just me?

They need an ASBO

Maybe in the good old days before the internet existed all children engaged in meals with well behaved stimulating conversation. Or maybe children where seen and not heard.

A couple of weeks ago we took DGD and her parents out for the day, which included lunch in a pub garden.

DGD sat at the and ate her food, drank her drink nicely from a glass with a straw, chatted and from time to time had a stroll (accompanied) round the garden to look at the plants and say hello to some of the dogs that people have brought with them.

She was 2 in late July. Not only can she "converse" in quiet a reasonable manner, she said "thank you" to the waitress when she was served and "please" when she wanted something. And she can now identify rudbeckia, fuchsias and knows a Dalmatian when she sees one.

Of course, she'd be so much smarter if only she had an iPad or a phone.

I bloody hate screen addiction and think using tech at the table is the height of rudeness. Factor in the noise of it as well and you're being rude and inconsiderate to everyone within earshot. People who want that on holiday should fucking well be self-catering, where it won't impact on others.

Ah bollocks, if only I hadn't glued that iPad to ds's face so that he could have no other human interaction or life experience, he might not think rudbeckias are just big jaundiced daisy's and wouldn't get Dalmatians confused with spotty Labradors. What a dolt I've been.

Really hope all you judgemental folk never have a child with additional needs. A child acting up doesn't always need 'parenting'. When did compassion go out of fashion

Some families like a noisy energetic breakfast and presumably paid for and where looking forward to their holiday. Enforced silence can be very unpleasant when you have a family.

No-one has said they want silence, enforced or otherwise. I don't think anyone would object to normal volume speech, that's a huge part of the pleasure of eating out. But if someone wants a "noisy, energetic breakfast" they need to realise that that will be intrusive and unpleasant for other people and perhaps go somewhere that that is appropriate, like Haven.

(Wtf happens at an "energetic" breakfast anyway? Do the kids run about while eating?)

How about this, the parents engage with the children..

Come on, User, it's clear that OP does not mean children with SENs in her post. Unless amazingly 95% of kids have SENs and all 'need' to be occupied by an ipad in a restaurant?

I am so sick of reading all these perfect parenting posts. It is of course lovely for those parents whose children can talk, eat nicely with a knife and fork and enjoy chatting about the holidays with their parents or crayon quietly when they have finished their meals. I am sure it is the result of their superior parenting or great genes. I, on the other hand, have two children with autism. They are non verbal and find new places v challenging. One will probably never go into a restaurant as it would be too stressful for them. The other would but would eat very little if anything in a new environment and would need all their mini toys, dvds and ipads to cope. They also won't wear headphones just like they won't wear clothes with buttons, badges, pictures on etc etc. I suppose I could just accept that my partner and I should never try and take her anywhere in case the ipad or dvd disturbs the serenity of other holidaymakers. Maybe we could tone down the judgemental crap on here just a tad??

he might not think rudbeckias are just big jaundiced daisy's

Silly boy, doesn't he know they're stunted sunflowers?

Most children don't have SEN. Not all poor behaviour is a direct result of SEN. Children with SEN can also be just plain rude, noisy and irritating- and yes sometimes it's naughtiness not disabilities.

How would you be able to judge this in a restaurant Crumbs? Have you ever looked after a child with severe autism, who is non verbal and also has learning disabilities and sensory problems? Before I had my children, I would not have had a clue.

But you don't know that from just looking at someone then surely it's best to not pass judgment?

Crumbs thinks they all have a label stamped on their heads.

Exactly what cansu said! I've got two children with autism.one severe and one high functioning. The HF DS also has a "social communication disorder" he struggles in social situations.
The noise of the restaurant, people chatting ...plates,...I could go on. He will use an MP3 player or iPad with headphones. The severe DC won't wear anything in his head and he has to have a helmet because if seizures so they won't fit over that ...he hates the noise in his ears ... He hates the band across his head. This can cause utter mayhem ....he could scream, kick out , throw!!!! The eldest can get very anxious so he becomes shouty and upset. You wouldn't know DS1 has a disablity to look at him.

Then we have DD .... Is it fair to not let her have a device if her brother's have one??? Is she being punished because she is not disabled? Tbh she prefers colouring etc.... But even so...we will give her the option. Only DS2 will keep his iPad when food arrived and he doesn't eat!

Stop judging parents ...you don't know exactly what goes on in Thier lives ...you have no idea...now clutch your pearls and hoik up your judgy pants.

If only life was as sweet and wonderful where we all slipped through daisies and talked about the botanicals making polite conversation!!!!

crumbs take it

What proportion of children are SN? 5%? Are posters not allowed to find any behaviour anti social, just in case?

To be fair ladylakie, if ds said the word rudbeckia, I would jump out of my skin, he would be able to find it on his tablet though, clever boy.

Crumbs thinks they all have a label stamped on their heads to be fair, this would make life a lot easier for the poor judgy tutters, bless em.

I will counter the judgmental posts with a post of how people can realise that people struggle and still be nice.

On holiday a few weeks ago we stopped at a cafe for lunch. I nipped into a shop and my parents went on in with DS. Apparently DS was slightly wound up when they got in until he was "set up" - at some point my Dad got talking to an elderly lady at the table next to us.

When they finished their meal the lady came over and commented how well DS had coped - then she got to his level and realised he was happy to interact with her told him what a good boy he was and then to my amazement gave him a £5 note to treat himself. In a world where people are so quick to judge (and we experienced plenty of it!) it was so nice to see that although behaviour isn't "conventional" that doesn't mean it's bad.

(He was on his iPad he whole time too as he didn't want to eat)

Another parent here with children who use tech in public. By that I mean on trains, aeroplanes, in restaurants, at the bus stop, in the shoe shop, at the playground basically wherever and whenever it is needed to avert a meltdown.

I have 3 dc, all with ASD. Only the eldest, with severe autism, needs it (and therefore gets it) all the time - waiting ability is zero, especially this week after 6 weeks of holiday (therefore break in routine) and back-to-school looming ( a Good Thing, but stressful as new class, new children, new teachers) next week so anxiety is sky high. She is 13, 5'7, and a meltdown is utterly uncontainable and is likely to result in injury (usually me, but others have been involved). The younger two manage reasonably well, but tbh, yes there are times when they will be 'plugged in' too. Usually after a hellish day, where they have coped with a shitload of challenges from their sister, or managed disappointment after disappointment that we cannot do X, go to Y, stay at Z, because their sister can't cope - sometimes some downtime is needed for everyone.

None of mine will tolerate headphones. Sensory issues. And so the volume is on, but low. It is, of course, audible, but not to a point above ordinary conversation levels. And not generally for games.

TBH, I think dd1 using an iPad with low volume is vastly preferable to the period where she would sing (loudly and enthusiastically) continually. She sings really well, but impromptu concerts aren't what the general public are after, I found. An iPad on low is also preferable to the time when she would recite whole books, over and over. Several passengers complained on the transatlantic flight when she quoted the Gruffalo over and over and over for about 4 hours (not particularly loudly, but again, audible) - wtf was I supposed to do, gag her? It was her coping mechanism.

I actually find ds' constant tapping of cutlery and crockery far more annoying (again a coping mechanism), or dd2's incessant stream of gabble relating to trying to categorise things (anything at all, could be related to a film we have just seen, could be ice cream flavours, could be glass sizes, whatever she matches onto) - she barely pauses for breath!

I'll join you Sirzy. We took the dc to Wagamamas and DS1 was his usual 'exuberant' self. We also had DS2 who was 2 at the time and i was heavily pregnant. Both boys needed to be managed and dh and i were (as usual) working hard to minimise any disruption, but occasionally they did get noisy and boisterous. We could see all the other children sitting nicely and we were getting 'the looks'. Then a young man who was sitting with a young woman came over and i thought 'right, here we go...' and he said 'i just want to say what a lovely family you are and what great parents you seem to be. We've been watching you and you have been so calm. i don't know where you get the patience. We hope to be like you when we have children.' I was so overwhelmed i cried and still well up a bit.

I often remember that comment when things are shit or when someone tells me DS1 just needs a good smack.

Sometimes the meal part of the day is the time when people, including children, need some wind down time and they may get that from a screen for 30 mins. They could have spent all day going round a castle and discussing the Plantagenets for all you know and just need some mental space. We try and balance the dc screen time and activity time and sometimes plan the screen time to coincide with an activity where they may need a distraction - like when we need to eat out.

A couple of weeks ago we took DGD and her parents out for the day, which included lunch in a pub garden
DGD sat at the and ate her food, drank her drink nicely from a glass with a straw, chatted and from time to time had a stroll (accompanied) round the garden to look at the plants and say hello to some of the dogs that people have brought with them
She was 2 in late July. Not only can she "converse" in quiet a reasonable manner, she said "thank you" to the waitress when she was served and "please" when she wanted something. And she can now identify rudbeckia, fuchsias and knows a Dalmatian when she sees one

I love this post more than anything. It's just amazing for so many reasons. I have read it about 100 times now 😭😭😭😂😂😭

I don't care how many screens a kid has at meal times, or anywhere else. Not my business.

It IS my business when the noise encroaches on me. And it's everyone else's business, for the reasons Youcanstayundermyumbrella pointed out. How could it ever be okay to annoy everybody else around you like that?

Maybe a hundred years ago being able to spend 3 hours scribbling with a red crayon is a great achievement. These days photoshop on an ipad is much more useful.

If normal speaking volumes are acceptable in a restaurant then normal ipad volumes are acceptable in public. This distinction between natural and artificial noise is just snobbery. Munsnet mothers need more exposure to 21st century noises where to most people it is all just background noise.