To wish schools would enforce uniform rules

[SunshineAndSmile]

So DD wants to wear black trainers for school but the school says no branded trainer type shoes. Last year 'everyone' wore trainers and nothing happened. The school also say minimal makeup, minimal jewellery, no coloured nail varnish, no fake nails, no shortened skirts but why then do half the girls look like they are going clubbing. Why am I constantly arguing with DD about this when the school just makes rules but doesn't follow them through? I feel like am fighting a loosing battle.

WIBU to ask the school to actually enforce their uniform rules this year?

Pengggwn, your attitude seems to be suck it up or do it yourself. Even though you know full well that home ed is not an option for most. Just what we need in a teacher...

Avoiding - Slight digression. Home education doesn't mean the parents are doing all the teaching. Many use private tutors to cover various subjects, although I imagine this would be expensive.

Back to case in point. Are you saying that based on the example given I.e 'X cannot do his homework because we've been busy or the rude one with, 'don't speak directly to my child', with do not, underlined, you really cannot see anything wrong with this communication? Because It is this attitude that Pengywnn and Maisy are arguing against but you seem to keep saying the parent is right. They are not saying parents should never state their concerns, meet with them or that their concerns should never be considered. They are saying this high and mighty attitude of we will do as we please at your school, is not acceptable.

I think you are always obligated to listen. Whether you try to accommodate them depends on what they are asking for.
But I think your utter refusal to accept that home ed is not a realistic option is worrying. Great that your school rules are reasonable but not all school's rules are and telling people to just suck it up or do it themselves (however ill equipped they are to actually do this) is a horrible attitude.

Our parents sign a home/school agreement, which states they will support uniform and discipline policy when their child starts.

Any complaints the head draws them swiftly back to the fact they signed to say they would abide by these policies. If they feel very strongly they are, of course, free to remove their child to another school as we have a waiting list.

They usually back down.

Most of our issues revolve around shirts being tucked in, skirts rolled up, top buttons undone etc. I totally agree it allows a little rebellion which is easily remedied without much fuss.

Where they rock up in trainers/jeggings there's a swift phone call home and it's usually dealt with.

Luckily our uniform is mostly black and white so it's reasonable to buy, and easy to find in shops

Eusebius no, I am not saying the parent is right to speak rudely to the teacher. However if the parent has made a decision wrt their child (for example not doing the hwk because the parent didn't ensure there was time to do it), the issue is with the parent and rather than keep raising it with the child (which puts them in the middle of school and home) my approach would have been to contact the parent directly and not continue speaking to the child about this particular problem.

we will do as we please at your school, Whose school? It doesn't belong exclusively to the staff. Schools belong to everyone who has a stake in them, which includes parents

Depends. By secondary school it's up to the student to sort it out. Bit different in reception!

Avoiding - That was not the example that was given in this thread however. The teachers on here are referring to instances where parents are being frankly ridiculous, trying to dictate how teachers should do their job and blissfully blind to the fact they are obstructing their own child's education they gave real examples of that sort of behaviour and you've just continued arguing.

If a parents sends a very polite note explaining why dc has been unable to complete their homework, I'm sure most teachers are reasonable enough to come to an agreement with the parents when the work can be handed in with an extension. That is a completely different approach to the churlish note being sent in with, 'I've told him not to do it, we have been busy'!.

Avoiding - And just to add, your example will also depend on he of the child. What might work for primary aged may not be acceptable in secondary school, but there is always room for flexibility, especially where parents are co operative, non confrontational and polite. I don't think Pengwnn or Maisy come across opposites of these.

With the homework, sometimes the child has chosen to do activities instead of homework and you are right, that is all on the teenager. But I have heard teachers say this to kids in year 4, where they really don't have control over their own lives.

I don't think Pen and maisy are wrong to insist that sensible school rules are followed. I think where we disagree is that I think that once you get a note like that from the parent, it is best to take the child out of the equation and not continue to talk to them about this particular issue, but go straight to the parents instead.
I think that continuing to say to the child that they have to do X when the parents have said they can do Y just puts the child in the middle of two conflicting authorities.
Sometimes the teacher will be completely in the right, but sometimes not.

Pengggwn
My son is 14. When he started secondary I drilled it into him to get as much as possible done the day it was set. He won't always get it all done but he's aware of leaving it to the last minute. It's up to him to organise his time.
I would support the school. The only time I haven't is when he got into trouble because another student hurt him. (He wasn't doing anything!) That I did take (calm) issue with!
Teaching is a hard enough job.

Thanks! I'm still training the 7 year old. I prompt her but am trying to get her to complete work increasingly independently. Sometimes she struggles and sometimes she does too much!! We will crack it.
If they can't take responsibility by secondary school then work/college will be a disaster.

Because It is this attitude that Pengywnn and Maisy are arguing against but you seem to keep saying the parent is right. They are not saying parents should never state their concerns, meet with them or that their concerns should never be considered. They are saying this high and mighty attitude ofwe will do as we please at your school, is not acceptable.

Exactly.
2 examples (from this year)

Student A: The homework I set touched on an issue going on at home that school weren't aware of. Mum rang school and left a message saying 'Could you ask Mrs Maisy to call me about Timmy's homework please'. I called and we agreed a different task and I passed on the home issue to our pastoral team.

Student B:
Class teacher set homework. Student didn't do it. Teacher gave a detention. Home wrote a note saying he would not be doing the detention because he was tired at the weekend and it's not his fault.Teacher rang home and home started throwing their weight around. Teacher said if he fails to attend it will escalate. Child didn't turn up and started telling the class that he didn't have to "because my mum says...". Gets passed to me. I spoke to the student and informed him that his detention is now doubled and it's with me. Option 1 is he does the detention. Option 2 I pass it to my deputy heads and they will put him in isolation for breech of behaviour policy. I did a phonecall home. Home decided that I shouldn't teach and were abusive on the phone. I passed it to senior leaders who called mum in for a meeting about thr issue and to point out she cannot be abusive or threatening to staff. The child did their detentions supervised by senior leaders.

Student B and his parent took 3 members of staff away from doing much more useful teaching and learning things all because he didn't do his homework and his mother was in the 'my child my roolz' mentality.

At primary, some hwk is reading/sums. Other times it is research and projects which often requires lots of help from parents. I don't disagree with teachers saying that hwk is primarily the child's responsibility but I do think there has to be recognition that at 9 if they need help and don't get it, there's little point in blaming them if it doesn't get done.

For GCSE, you are right and it is their work to do.

At last we agree

Completely agree with Pengggwn and Maisy and hope that my DCs have teachers like you