AIBU - to feel unsupported in my feminist beliefs in the playground

[Goldiloz]

I feel like this is the straw that broke the camels back.
I don't understand why mothers aren't supporting women's rights at primary school. Surely most sane people think that girls should be given the same opportunities as boys. We shouldn't pigeon hole 50% of the population just because they will grow up to have boobs and maybe pop out a kid or two. I feel like I am fighting a losing battle listening to some of the other mums in the playground.
It ranges from presents at birthday parties. The 'norm' seems to be buying girls creative/pink stuff unless they are a 'Tom boy' when they can get 'boy' stuff instead. And boys are only given sports and superhero stuff.
And party bags! Separate ones for boys and girls????
I just don't understand why women fail to see the issue with this and continue to justify it with generalised comments about 'most boys' and 'most girls'.
AIBU to expect more from modern women?

I'd be avoiding you if you were one of the mums in the playground.

You might be being unreasonable as I don't know if your experience is universal. My kids have been to 3 different schools and I've not come across very many gender stereotyping parents in person. We must have lucked out! And I've never, ever been to a kids party where there was 'girl' and 'boy' party bags! There has been no stress to conform or not to stereotype.

Mind you I've never come across playground cliques/queen bees or anyone giving a shit what anyone else is wearing either. Or horrible PTA people. Maybe I live in a bubble.

Fruitcorner it's not that the school is treating the children differently (as far as I know), it's DDs perceptions of what she thinks are boy behaviours and girl behaviours. So she tends to think that boys are better at certain activities and to her this then becomes, 'girls can't do that'.

but it is the school's responsibility to address this. Could you give an example of the kinds of thing she is referring to?

aiming not to make pink toys something to be looked down upon is often missed out

Quite. I remember playing with a boy whose father would yell and beat him when he caught him playing that 90s game "pretty pretty princess" with us. His sister got a few glances when she played with "boy things" but nothing like what that poor kid endured for daring to like something aimed at female children. Kinda like how the minute a previously male name becomes popular w girls, people stop calling their boys that. Disdain for females runs pretty deep apparently, and that's the crux of the issue for me. or one of them, when it comes to gendered norms for kids.
As an aside, in Victorian times I read blue was a baby girls color and pink for boys. Who decides this shit

O fuck off your one of them who excludes people for no reason!

Yabvu. I usually ask party mum what the child likes, and get what tge kid likes. You do sound like hRd work, I would be massively eye rolling at you.

I suffered with the early days of "women into science and engineering" and ended up being heavily persuaded to do a STEM subject at uni that I didn't like

Yes me too although fortunately the pressure was at school to do Higher Maths. It was obvious that the step up from Ordinary to Higher was a step too far. I failed Higher Maths- it didn't make any difference to getting into to do a law degree but it is the only exam I ever failed. It is possible to be a clever girl and genuinely not good at maths.

Lmsm the fuck you on about?!

YABU, you sound like a crashing sanctimonious bore...

I have a daughter who is a football coach with a championship club. I love football and F1 and don't like typical 'girly' things.
My youngest DD is in to pink and sparkles and all that stuff, I absolutely hate it! But it's who she is.
I don't agree that it is necessarily parents who enforce the gender stereotyping as it certainly didn't happen in this house.
I do believe it is society as a whole and when my youngest started school her pink obsession began and has gradually worsened.
She still plays football but this Saturday she teamed her football strip with a pink bow in her hair.
But as I said, society dictates that girls should like pink and dress like a "princess". I see so many fb posts from people talking about their "Princess Emma" ( or whatever their child is called) and it makes me cringe.
I wish it could be different, but we have a long way to go.

Totally with you. There was a really interesting documentary on last week (think it was BBC) about how we subconsciously assume girls like pink/dolls and boys like superheroes/lego and therefore always give children those sorts of toys so eventually that's what they like and we think it's nature when in reality we push those stereotypes on kids. It means girls end up testing worse in skills like spacial awareness as so are less likely to become engineers, architects etc.

People who say 'my little girl just loves pink fluffy things, she's a typical girl there's nothing I've done to make that happen!' may be right from a personal point of view but overall it's society that tells girls to like pink and being pretty over liking 'boys toys'. And it's so, so harmful.

Also seeing most of the replies here means people are so oblivious to this. I find it quite upsetting that my son will grow up in a world that still highlights the differences between girls and boys.
Everybody should watch the recent documentary about gendering children and then reconsider their answers to this post.

@Lindtnotlint your post 100%.

When people don't realise that society encouraging girls to focus ok being pretty and 'girly' is damaging and dangerous it makes me feel really upset about the future for our children.

I'm with you OP.

Everything segregates gender, even in my local toy store you have

Girls toys (aisle)
Content = everything pink, glittery and doll related.
Boys toys (also the aisle name)
Blue/multicoloured/combat colours.
Even things as subtle as that makes a difference, in how we treat our children and how they think about themselves. so I try to avoid treating my DD differently based on this and always try to remind her she is a person first, a human being with preferences and thoughts and wants and s girl 2nd. Her wants and needs come before gender norms. She has an array of toys and interests from trucks, dolls, barbies to quad biking with her dad, horse riding and swimming and being part of a choir group that is completely female (not because of any rule they have they just don't have any male members).

I disagree. And I find it offensive that pp have written that it's down to intelligence. It's not. It's just a difference of opinion.
Some girls are just naturally very girly, very pink, very dressy. Some aren't. Some are both. Tomboy and girly at the same table me. The parents don't make them this way, or society, they just ARE. I can't see the feminist point.

You want what every good mum wants: the best for her DC. But the specific examples you've mentioned are perhaps a bit unreasonable. The reality is that nobody's perfect at gift giving (party bags included). It's why we're all taught to say thank-you and appreciate gifts that we may never use, whichever gender they're for. It's the (sometimes muddled) thought behind it that counts.

If these sorts of party gifts offend you, you might consider teaching your DD (if you have one) to accept it graciously and then donate it later to a shelter or similar charity that supports women. If you'd like to reach out to other women/parents about this issue, getting involved in these types of services is a positive way of influencing change, both in society and in setting an example for your DD.

History has perhaps shown that it's best to approach such issues broadly, and that rejecting a gift bag at a party is more likely to hurt feelings than educate women.

Good luck!

I'm torn on this one. I wholeheartedly agree that girls should have the same opportunities to do sport and everything else that boys do. I don't see how giving a girl a My little pony is going to affect her opportunities though.

My mum was very much against pink- it really messed my head up. Through school I am ashamed to say I looked down on 'girly' girls and thought I was superior being a 'tomboy' even though that was forced upon me. If asked what I wanted I'd always pick blue (or the 'none girl' option) to try and please my mum.

The girls who loved pink in primary school are doing as well as the rest of us. Turns out it probably didn't matter. I do still feel rebellious if I choose something pink though which is daft.

My daughter has just had her third birthday. She wanted the scooter with the pink writing. She may have got the idea she likes pink from nursery but I am not going to get another colour just to prove a point.

@Oblomov17 science has shown that society very much does create these differences

"Well I think all those who claim they would avoid you are doing you a favour OP. The posters who get it are markedly more intelligent."

Many "get it" but you can put people off just by tone and being overly sanctimonious and condescending. Not particularly aimed at the OP with which i agree with much of their annoyance.

Wow! I have read loads of mumsnet posts because t it doesn't compare when 10 people tell you that they would avoid you in the playground. Nice!
In answer to a couple of questions, I didn't refer to fathers as I haven't had this experience with fathers. I wasn't generalising about women just the women I have dealt with.
And I do work full time, just on mat leave at the moment.
To all those saying just let kids be kids, this is actually my point. I don't feel that they are being allowed to be anything they want to be when the girls are repeatedly given the same princess stuff and the boys given dinosaurs. Well done to parents who ask what kids want but realistically that is not always practical and lots of people just make assumptions based on gender. To the poster who suggested that I give dolls to boys and tricks to girls, I give similar toys to both sexes based on age appropriate toys unless it is a themed party then I go with whatever that is.
I am obviously happy for people to raise their kids however they see fit but when it influences my child's belief in herself (I am not allowed to play football etc) then it becomes a problem.
And to all those aggressive posts, feminism means equality not lessening the role of men or whatever the daily mail says.

And we would never rudely reject anything - party bag or present. I just internally sigh. I try to teach them to be gracious when they don't like something as I'm sure we all do.
I like the idea of donating to a women's shelter. Thanks.

Interesting that everyone, including OP, think party bags and shit like that is the mum's responsibility (wifework)

And that only mums are under fire

Lots of kids have a dad in.their lives too

Check out your own prejudices and beliefs OP, do you think raising kids is the sole responsibility of women?

Just do your own thing. I have never done gendered party bags in my life, so you don't have to either.

This i my view.

I have one dd (now 13) and one ds (now 7).

Yes i believe their likes and dislikes are in part down to social conditioning. But you know what, social condition exisits in evryones life. Thats life.

I find gender roles damaging for both my kids futures. Dds interests have been Ben 10, disney princesses, dinosaurs, anythung pink and glittery etc. I have been into school and had a word because someone told her girls couldnt have a Ben 10 lunch box and the teacher did a general talk for the class about tgat sort of thing. Dd and ds (who also had disney princess phase) have been brought up that they can like what they want.

Ds has said a few times, since starting school things like 'footballs not for girl'. I question, gently why he thinks that (usually someone has told him it at school) and then we talk about how me and dd play football with him and how he would feel if we couldnt play. Which, makes him realise its bullshit. He now understands and often challenges these views himself.

I try my best to bring my kids up without gender sterotypes as much as possible. And try and model that behaviour with Dh.

However, if they have been invited to a party, i am not going to refuse to buy a girl something pink because i feel she has been socially conditioned. If that what her parents have said she wants, thats fine. If a boy wants a train. Thats fine too.

I am a feminist. I have never felt the need to look down on or educate other parents on the school run. Dh does a 2/3 of the school runs. Being a feminist have never caused me issues with any of the mums. Do i think that i would not do things they do? Yes. But its not my place to judge. Some of them i know well and we will chat if they are at ours. And one in particular has changed some things. But us just chatting. Not me telling or me judging.

Most parents are trying their best and doing what they feel is best. That may change. Its all in how you go about it. If you are making people uncomfortable, then you are going about it wrong.