AIBU - to feel unsupported in my feminist beliefs in the playground

[Goldiloz]

I feel like this is the straw that broke the camels back.
I don't understand why mothers aren't supporting women's rights at primary school. Surely most sane people think that girls should be given the same opportunities as boys. We shouldn't pigeon hole 50% of the population just because they will grow up to have boobs and maybe pop out a kid or two. I feel like I am fighting a losing battle listening to some of the other mums in the playground.
It ranges from presents at birthday parties. The 'norm' seems to be buying girls creative/pink stuff unless they are a 'Tom boy' when they can get 'boy' stuff instead. And boys are only given sports and superhero stuff.
And party bags! Separate ones for boys and girls????
I just don't understand why women fail to see the issue with this and continue to justify it with generalised comments about 'most boys' and 'most girls'.
AIBU to expect more from modern women?

My friends child goes to a primary school where girls aren't allowed to wear trousers and I can't believe that no one has challenged that.
It's a state school and girls must wear a blouse with skirt while boys can wear a polo tshirt and trousers or shorts.

This makes me want to weep, Cuppa.

When I left school and started work, there were still many working environments where women weren't allowed to wear trousers. I thought it was ridiculous.

If you'd told me then that in 45 years time, schools would insist on little girls wearing skirts, I wouldn't have believed you. Are we going backwards when it comes to equality between the sexes?

I think YANBU. It does my head in, the parents banging on about how their little girl is such a 'diva' or a 'girly girly', putting stupid big Jojo bows in their hair for school etc. Because that's just the way they are. No- they aren't actually, they're succumbing to gender stereotyping and advertising... I've even heard some mum's going down the 'bitchy' route to described some of the girls ( this is RECEPTION by the way)We always buy 'unisex' pressies for kids, I would shoot myself before doing a 'boys' party a and a 'girls' party bag. We're lucky that she's at a half decent school where there are parents who realise what a load of tosh it it.
I don't think you sound like hard work, I think you sound like someone who actually gives a damn,
It's too easy yet to give in and roll with it, to not be the 'difficult' one - because no one like an awkward woman after all.

Surely Feminism is about choice! Giving the child different choices. Your swapping one ideal, for another, by forcing your preconceptions on the child. If a girl likes JJo bows and wants them so what! In the same vein she might also like Star Wars or Cars. Surely feminism is the choice to allow a kid to be who they want and play with the toys they want.

The point is that girls and boys are being pushed into stereotypes by advertising and by unthinking societal pressures
I do understand that but the point I was making is that mothers, grandmothers, aunties etc are making those choices for the child from the day they are born. They dont think its wrong and to imply otherwise makes them feel like some parts of society is forcing them to give that choice up. I am not saying its a correct assumption but I am saying its what a lot of people I know feel.

I do get depressed about the shorts for girls, they all seem to be daisy dukes, very high and revealing, so I bought my dd10, boys board shorts. Love boys clothing so sensible and comfortable.

So long as one of the requirements isn't "Must have a penis" then yes.

I think you're not seeing the full picture, Bertrand Russell.

Let's say the average height of women is 5'6" and the average height of men is 5'10", and applicants must have a minimum height of 5'8". A greater proportion of men than women would be considered for the job, and it's a clear example of indirect discrimination.

Many years ago, the London Fire Brigade reduced the chest size requirement for applicants for this reason, and Met Police lowered the height requirement for officers because it was held to be indirect discrimination against some ethnic groups that tend to be smaller.

Feminism is not about choice.

Feminism is about achieving a society that is equal by removing the barriers that exist.

Aeroflotgirl I hear you. I refuse to let 2yo ds wear some if the ridiculous shirts made for girls. I am fully aware that as a resukt a large number of extended family and friends think I am ridiculously ott in my feminism but I don't care. Her "boys" shorts are more comfortable and more practical and I like knowing that I am not encouraging my daughter to think that dressing appropriately means exposing her entire body. I have no problem with "girls" clothes and she wears plenty of pink because she loves pink but here I draw a line.

Argh. That should be Shorts. Not shirts.

"Surely feminism is the choice to allow a kid to be who they want and play with the toys they want"

Of course. What this thread is about is trying to make sure that boys and girls have proper choice. Not a illusion of choice steered by advertisers and socetal norms. Telling boys that dolls are for girls and girls that trains are for boys and reinforcing that view by segregating toys in toy shops and by subliminal approval for the "right" choices by parents and carers is not giving children a proper choice.

Also, agree with pp that you can be feminine and also feminist. I wear dresses, love handbags, live for the odd spa day with friends but I doubt anyone who knows me in real life questions that I have strong feminist opinions. Where did this idea come from that being feminist means we are humourless gender-neutral people with no life outside of feminism?

I wear men's designer jeans, as I hate the ladies, they are not comfortable or practical unless your a size 10 and under.

Feminism is about giving a woman choice. Yes you are removing barriers, which then enhance their choices. Not limit them, therefore if a girl wants, she can be an engineer, Soldier, or equally a nurse or secretary. Equally if a girl likes pink, she can wear it, but if she doesent, than she can wear things that are not pink and girly, like I did growing up. Loved my military shirts and grey boys trousers at school.

I agree with you, Bertrand, its about widening a childs choice. My parents wanted a girly girl, but what I was, I think it was innate, I much preferred boy orientated things and wanted to do a male dominated Job. My parents did not try to change my style or toys I played with, they supported that!

"Where did this idea come from that being feminist means we are humourless gender-neutral people with no life outside of feminism?"

It came from anti feminists.

In my kids party bags, every child got the same, note book, pen, whistle, packet of sweets and cake. I always ask the parent what their child wants for their birthday, so I can get something they will like. If the girl liked Spiderman, I will get it, or boy a craft set, I will buy that.

"Where did this idea come from that being feminist means we are humourless gender-neutral people with no life outside of feminism?"

It came from anti feminists.

^^ This

Had this recently.

I have realised that lots of people don't think this has anything to do with them. They just don't get it and they don't care because they have nice little lives not worrying about equality because their lives are just lovely and it's just so depressing to hear about other people's struggles. They just want to make small talk.

I wouldn't care about being intense or serious. At least you care about and stand for something!!

Because feminism is about promoting real and meaningful choices, it is also beneficial of boys and men who have disadvantages under strict gender segregation and stereotypes also.

Not that that is or should be the raison d'être for feminism, but I find it helpful to point out when MRAs people try to shout me down

I think people sometimes fail to look deeper.
When I hear people say that boys toys are more interesting - just look at Lego and how it's helping build spatial awareness but in the same conversation look down on creative crafts I am quite puzzled.

Do people not realise that turning a 2D piece of cloth into a 3D shape uses spatial awareness and ability to follow a pattern?
Knitting, lacemaking, all very mathematical.
You are using similar skills as when building with Lego.

Oh, dolly, that really frustrates me!
People who seem to be unable and/or unwilling to look beyond their own tiny little lives...

Did anyone see that programme on TV last week, about gender neutural. A psychologist studied kids in a school. Some of the little girls ideas were so depressing. The clothes with the slogans: " my clever boy" " born to be beautiful" (girl)

National Trust Anyone, shocking. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4833532/Council-slammed-selling-sexist-pink-hats.html

The answer is not to buy things like that, but people will, and there will always be parents who will buy these things.

Do people not realise that turning a 2D piece of cloth into a 3D shape uses spatial awareness and ability to follow a pattern?

Yes but as it tends to be more a female thing than a male thing. The feminists will say that is because things done by women are not valued by society. But a think feminists also do that - decrying anything "girly" - always talking up how much better things intended for boys are.

Or this sort of comment from a similar thread on FWR.

Maybe it's just because most girls clothing is unbearably hideous

I agree there shouldn't be stereotypical toys and if a boy wants to dress up as elsa then that's fine. If a girl wants to go and see the new cars film, that's fine too. But girls do want pink stuff and boys do wants cars and blue stuff, just as much as boys want frozen dolls and girls want Thomas the tank. If a girl doesn't want a party bag full of "boys toys", then why should she have too just because of feminism? If she does want a party bag full of "boys toys" then she can. My cousin (boy) used to want to be a mam in mammys and daddy's, used to dress up in his sisters dresses and often came down stairs at family meet ups wearing my sisters heels and my scarf. He is now the biggest stereotypical boy I know, constantly on his iPad, obsessed with his hair/looks, loves buying trainers etc. Did we as a family tell him he had too be a stereotypical boy?? No, we let him dress up as a girl and be a pretend mam, but he chose himself to do that and then he also chose himself that he wanted to do less of that and do more of what his other boy friends do. You should let the child chose what they want for a present or party bag and if a girl wants a dolly then let her have a dolly without getting all arsey about it because of feminism and gender roles etc. If a boy wants a toy car, let him have it. Equally, a girl should be allowed to have a toy car and a boy should be allowed a dolly..if THEY want too not because of rights and "being equal".

I think you have missed my point. I'm not arguing with what you say. My point is the tendency of some women who call themselves feminists to decry anything which is for girls as bad - unless of course a boy chooses It, in which case all the bad connotations magically fly off.