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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU - to feel unsupported in my feminist beliefs in the playground

459 replies

Goldiloz · 28/08/2017 21:46

I feel like this is the straw that broke the camels back.
I don't understand why mothers aren't supporting women's rights at primary school. Surely most sane people think that girls should be given the same opportunities as boys. We shouldn't pigeon hole 50% of the population just because they will grow up to have boobs and maybe pop out a kid or two. I feel like I am fighting a losing battle listening to some of the other mums in the playground.
It ranges from presents at birthday parties. The 'norm' seems to be buying girls creative/pink stuff unless they are a 'Tom boy' when they can get 'boy' stuff instead. And boys are only given sports and superhero stuff.
And party bags! Separate ones for boys and girls????
I just don't understand why women fail to see the issue with this and continue to justify it with generalised comments about 'most boys' and 'most girls'.
AIBU to expect more from modern women?

OP posts:
Goldiloz · 29/08/2017 13:20

Damnfinecherry would you like to read my 4 posts above which clearly state that when I mentioned mums it was about my own experience. So before you call me a misogynist perhaps read all the posts before offering your two pence worth.
Yes, I am sarcastic but sometimes we all choose words others don't agree with. Sorry for offending you.

OP posts:
Aeroflotgirl · 29/08/2017 13:21

Head, I would totally support her! My SIL was pushed by her parents into Law, did the LLB, Bar etc but did not pursue it. She told me she hated it and did it because she felt she had to by her parents. She wanted to be a SW.

Aeroflotgirl · 29/08/2017 13:22

So I would support my dd becoming a Nurse, if that is what she really wanted to do.

LaurieMarlow · 29/08/2017 13:22

Pretending gender doesn't exist isn't the same as being a feminist.

This, with bells on.

The complex interplay of nature and nurture is not something we totally understand, but to suggest that it's all nurture is simply ridiculous.

Aeroflotgirl · 29/08/2017 13:26

Its their life at the end of the day, I am not going to push them towards something for my own agenda, and live out my wants through their life. I regret regularly not being a Pilot because my mum did not support me, and I don't want that for my dd or ds.

I am training in K1 Dutch style kickboxing, and my mum comes out with the most sexist crap. OOh your a woman, you should not be doing that! That is for men! Ehhh no, there are many women in my Dojo doing it too.

grannytomine · 29/08/2017 13:28

Well I sort of agree, I refuse to buy either of my granddaughters anything in pink, I'm just sick of the whole pink thing. But then we have to accept that other people can make their own choices. I think I'm on the fence.

IDoDaChaCha · 29/08/2017 13:30

OP my 18mth old DD loves playing with trucks, buses, dinosaurs, etc as well as dolls and cuddly toys. I agree providing them with everything (not just gender specific) stuff gives them the opportunity to play with all and not begin the process of pigeonholing early... But other peoples children are another matter. Live and let live.

grannytomine · 29/08/2017 13:31

How would you feel if your girl wanted to be a nurse though? Even though she was good at physics? My son is a nurse, his school was furious that he wasn't applying for medicine which they thought he should do. He is doing really well, several promotions in the 3 years since he graduated. Sad that nursing is still seen as handmaidens to the great doctors.

carbuncleonapigsposterior · 29/08/2017 13:42

And the most disadvantaged demographic in schools today.... white working class boys, irrespective of party bags! In the great scheme of things what most kids get in their bags has very little affect on their lives. How about just shoving a bit of cake in them op, iced in a gender nuetral colour, what a waste of money it must be stuffing party bags full of toys anyway, gender appropriate or not.

As the mother of two boys now grown up, I regarded my childrens' education overly feminised, due no doubt to the overwhelming lack of male teachers. SOME of the female teacher they had, particularly those coming up to retirement, exuded a positive dislike of boys. Whether this situation still exists I can't say, but I certainly regarded the state education system my kids went through had a strong bias towards girls, this was the general concensus with the mothers of boys in my children's peer group.

IDoDaChaCha · 29/08/2017 13:48

Tomorrowillbeachicken was that the programme where all the boys described themselves as "the best", nearly all the girls had appearance-related anxiety and one described herself as " ugly" (they are all 7yrs old...). If so, it was heartbreaking. Really sad.

TatianaLarina · 29/08/2017 13:52

All this nonsense about 'feminism'.

Every single person on this thread is a feminist unless they are willing to hand back women's right to education, to vote, to hold professional jobs, to the principle of equal pay, to democratic representation.

TatianaLarina · 29/08/2017 13:54

Pretending gender doesn't exist isn't the same as being a feminist

Which is not what this thread is about - it's about narrow, false gender stereotyping.

BertrandRussell · 29/08/2017 14:19

"As the mother of two boys now grown up, I regarded my childrens' education overly feminised"

Can you say more? What is overly feminised education?

IDoDaChaCha · 29/08/2017 14:51

Actually, the firefighter one is a good example. Anyone who can meet the requirements of the job should have an equal chance of getting the job. Regardless of sex. Not sure why you think that is an argument against feminism.....

Excellent point. You only have to reference the Williams sisters in tennis to see some women can be extraordinarily muscular and powerful. If I remember correctly their female peers accused them of using drugs to enhance their athleticism as their serves were more powerful than some of the men's...

Aeroflotgirl · 29/08/2017 15:04

Exactly, not all women are petite, small framed, there are some in my kickboxing dojo that could easily rival the men for strength, some mean fighter girls. Not me, I am a big wall of flab Blush.

bambambini · 29/08/2017 15:09

"I have spoken to that seem to think boys and girls are inherently different and want different things."

I'm not sure that there aren't inherent differences.

TheEgregiousPeach · 29/08/2017 17:00

But what are these inherent differences then? Contemporary psychological research would suggest that actually there is not, unless we are talking about physiology. And even then it's not clear cut- boys have higher levels of testosterone, testosterone is associated with aggression so are boys naturally more aggressive? Once again, the research indicates not.
The concept of nurture seems highly underrated by many on this thread

ContraryLollipop · 29/08/2017 17:12

Another person here who agrees with you OP!

I only have boys, and I reluctantly admit, I probably do reinforce the toy stereotypes with them. My eldest is into vehicles, machinery, tools, lego etc. They are great for learning spatial awareness, logic, how mechanical things work. He loves making and fixing things, and we love role-playing being the 'boss' versus being the builders/doctors doing the work. He also does the 'caring' thing with his teddies and baby brother, and does some creative art stuff, but these are the minority of the time.

Every so often he'll pick up something pink and sparkly in a shop... I don't dissuade him from playing with these, but if I'm completely honest I (and DH) are not as enthusiastic about buying him 'girly' things as 'boy toys'.

This is not out of disdain for pink/girly things, just a mixture of:

a) feeling the 'girl toys' have less to offer as they often don't 'do' anything and don't teach the skills I mention above.

b) feeling they promote too much focus on appearances/clothes/prettiness

c) eldest already gravitates to 'boy toys', has done from he was as old enough to choose, I guess due to conditioning from us and nursery.

d) yes, I admit societal pressure...

e.g. he was given a 'girly' bracelet in a party bag and wore it for a while, and I was a little bit glad when it broke! So silly I know!

It seems more socially acceptable for girls to be tom-boys than for boys to be feminine, as a couple of pp's have said. I would love to rise above this, but I want my boys to fit in, for their own benefit, so would gently steer them towards the 'masculine' route (obviously this doesn't always work for every child and if there was resistance I would have to re-think).

I try not to enforce stereotypes, I refer to 'firefighters' instead of 'firemen', I avoid calling the household tools 'daddy's tools' even though in reality only DH buys or uses them (I am sadly useless at DIY and driving despite really trying). It all takes conscious effort to avoid exposing all these sexist stereotypes to them.

In the same way I would never say to them that a particular toy is 'girly' BUT I would maybe slightly steer them away from certain things and steer towards others, to make their life easier in the long-run.

I have never gone out of my way to buy them a doll, for example (and they've never asked for one). I had to choose between ballet and football and chose football without any hesitation, whereas maybe with a girl I'd have consulted them or thought about it a bit more.

I have friends with older girls, and always thought it was a bit sad and sexist when they talked about not liking 'pink' things for their girls, but seeing the qualities of the girl toys in comparison to boys and thinking about the educational value and the type of thinking they promote, I see their point.

Aware I don't have any experience with girls, and don't know whether there are innate differences in what girls and boys are interested in, I imagine it's very hard to study this because it would be difficult to find enough children who were not exposed to stereotypes from birth.

NewbiedontknowwhatIamdoing · 29/08/2017 17:41

I dont really know what feminism means anymore, the word seems to mean so many different things to so many people. In my experience there are usually a few 'feminists' in the playground. But most of the mothers think girls in general like dolls and 'pink things' and boys in general like cars and dinosaurs. They just dont think its such a big deal, its normal and dont like 'feminism' being thrown in their faces. You can have equality and still like being feminine.

BertrandRussell · 29/08/2017 17:42

"You can have equality and still like being feminine."

Has anyone said you can't?

NewbiedontknowwhatIamdoing · 29/08/2017 17:48

BertrandRussell, not per se. But I do find the the general feeling around mothers at school (well any group really) is that to be a 'feminist' means you have to give up 'girly' things', pink toys, dolls etc and those are the hall marks of what being feminine is. Maybe that belief is wrong which is why I said I dont know what feminism is anymore.

BertrandRussell · 29/08/2017 17:51

That's a little puzzling, surely? If nobody's said it, I wonder where the idea came from.

MassDebate · 29/08/2017 17:53

I agree with you (YANBU). I also get immensely frustrated at the assumption (from some school gate mums and the teaching population) that only mums can ever help out with school events etc. It's 2017 fgs, women work too y'know Angry

NewbiedontknowwhatIamdoing · 29/08/2017 17:57

That's a little puzzling, surely? If nobody's said it, I wonder where the idea came from It comes from posts like this that seem to imply its abnormal "to be buying girls creative/pink stuff". And that any good mother shouldn't stand for it.

But its not abnormal, most mothers think its good to buy girls dolls etc and that pink is a nice color.

BertrandRussell · 29/08/2017 18:10

"It comes from posts like this that seem to imply its abnormal "to be buying girls creative/pink stuff". And that any good mother shouldn't stand for it."
But that's not what's being said. The point is that girls and boys are being pushed into stereotypes by advertising and by unthinking societal pressures. It's fine for girls to like dolls. But they shouldn't be steered away from trucks- because dolls are for girls and trucks are for boys. And vice versa. And babies are steered towards pink and blue before they are old enough to express preferences- look at all the gendered kit people buy before the baby's even born. And the people who wNt to find out the sex "so they can start shopping" . That's not the child being allowed a free choice, is it?(

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