paying for birthday meal

[Riv]

Need your advice on expected etiquette to avoid embarrassment and resolve a minor family argument:
If you received an invitation to a friend's "significant birthday" meal at a local, good but reasonable, restaurant, would you expect to pay for any of it? - eg the meal? the wine? What would be reasonable to expect if anything?

I think i would find that stressful Op. In the circs i would do something like message everyone with a link to the menu and say something like DH will be supplying cake/fizz, hope venue suits needs for food intolerances or similar.

If I was invited for a meal I would assume I paid and have never had it any other way. Regardless of the occasion the only events I would assume I am being fed at are weddings and parties at peoples homes.

Try not to stress OP, its a lovely thing your DH is doing and it would be nice if you enjoyed it. Even if a couple of people thought that host pays I would also assume they would have their purse/wallet on them anyway going out for the evening.

"I agree with Agent and actually, it's got nothing to do with 'old-fashioned', it's just the way etiquette decrees."

@Lying. What etiquette? I've never encountered this, and from the boards, seem to be in a majority. It seems most of those who do think this has some limitations on it. Am I right in thinking the following indicate that organiser pays:

1. Applies when the word invitation is used? This seems quite important?
2. Especially applies for an event such as birthdays?

Are there any other rules?

Ok, what my friends and I would do is send out a Facebook message to everyone saying its my birthday on Friday, does anyone fancy joining me for dinner at that Italian near the station? Then those that want to come come and pay for their own food. We sit and chat about other things, no body is hosting and maybe at the end some might hand over a small present or the birthday girl might buy some wine. Its all very low key but nice to spend some time with friends on your birthday. I think this is the sort of thing most people imagine. Its not a birthday party per se, its just a nice evening with friends on your birthday.

@Agent

We all have norms within a group of friends, what I'm getting at is that some people seem to insist that there is firm social norm that the organiser pays when going out to a commercial establishment.

Am I right in understanding that you would assume this if (for example) an acquaintance asked you to a restaurant for their birthday? If so, why are you so sure they'd know this rule?

I think it would depend how it was worded. The long and short of it is, even if I didn't expect to pay, I'd have enough money on me to cover it if I did have to pay, and I wouldn't be at all aggrieved or pissed off in any way if this was the case.

If you mention to someone 'oh we should meet up and have dinner, do you and x wanna meet me and y at a restaurant we were planning on trying?' and they agree, does that mean you are paying? Just because you were the first person to bring up the idea of a meal?

No, but if I sent an email saying "DH and I would like to invite you to dinner at restaurant we were planning on trying" then I would expect to pay. It's all in the wording, I think. In fairness, if I'd received such an invitation, I would still make the offer to pay my share when the bill came!

donquixote Well Debretts is clear enough about issuing invitations and the responsibilities of the host but perhaps this link will help. The consensus is that it NEEDS TO BE CLEAR at the outset.

www.chowhound.com/post/birthday-dinners-pays-etiquette-413225

Sometimes the host pays for one drink for each guest, but that's specified on the invite.

I do remember that at our evening wedding reception there were some guests (my former work colleagues) who assumed that we were covering their drinks at the bar. Their bar bill came to £150 or so. My DBIL (who was best man) was asked to cover this as we had already left. We reimbursed him of course. They were the only ones who did that, talk about cheeky!!

An interesting article:
consideretiquette.com/who-pays-the-bill-restaurant-etiquette/

mittens, that's disgraceful. It's standard convention to have a 'paid bar' now.

Personally, if I expected people to come out for my birthday, I would pay.
When we were in our 20s, it was probably more the norm to split the bill etc. Not these days though!
If people show up to your birthday, they are already forking out for a gift, babysitter (probably) and taxis. This is expensive. I think the least I can do is treat them. My invite - my shout.
If I couldn't afford it, I would simply invite less people or host from home.
Quite often people will hire a room with a buffet so then you can order food "per head" in line with your budget. This is often a cheaper way of doing things.
On my 40th, DH arranged for about friends to meet at our house for drinks. He booked a minibus to take us into town for dinner and more drinks and sorted everyone's taxis home. There is no way I would expect people to pay at my choice of venue.

and another modern article:
financialbestlife.com/who-pays-for-the-birthday-dinner/

The other thing is, do you split the bill or work out exactly how much everyone owes? I'm happy splitting the bill because the arguments over who owes what can get embarrassing. My DM goes on and on at this point. But then you come to the issue of the tip, do you share this too?

But then this can be unfair on people who don't drink so much, they end up paying for people to get drunk sometimes.

It is very expensive in restaurants and very few people can easily pay for a large group of friends. I don't think I've been to a celebration meal in a restaurant where I haven't paid tbh.

As has been said, a function is a different matter.

I am old but I would always expect to pay if I invited other people to help me celebrate my birthday. I think the idea that people pay for themselves when they have been invited out must be quite recent as I have only come across it once at a niece's wedding which I found completely bizarre until I came on MN and found out that it is now usual to pay for yourself at someone else's wedding, so maybe it is now also usual to pay for yourself at someone else's birthday party.

OP, I think a reminder email along the lines of AJPTaylor's suggestion making it clear is the way to go....then those who can't afford a meal out (or prefer to spend their money in other ways) can politely pull out but those who are quite happy to pay and have fun with you can still attend.

Lying, there were drinks on offer at the evening reception, along with the paid for buffet. Obviously we covered that.

They bought drinks at the separate bar, I've never known them to be included.

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe

Completely agree that a clear discussion resolves all issues. Still, some people do seem to be assuming that invitee pays is the norm- to the point of being annoyed when people don't do so (I think that was another thread) or assuming that everyone would follow the same rule (when clearly they don't).

@notgettingyounger

"I think the idea that people pay for themselves when they have been invited out must be quite recent as I have only come across it once at a niece's wedding"

I think that's something very different. Providing food for wedding guests is absolutely the norm, and deviation from that has the potential for serious offence.

Personally I can see why having guests pay for the wedding party themselves might work, but they then shouldn't be buying gifts or forking out for expensive hotels. MN has a lot of stories of unreasonable brides and grooms, I'm not sure they are representative.

In your situation, of your husband had invited me, I'd expect to pay and probably put a bit extra to pay for you. I'm 35 and have never had a friend pay for us all at a meal out.

However, my in laws paid for everyone for their 60ths. I wonder if it's a generational thing? Or if you reach a certain age you have more money perhaps?!