Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be frustrated by the misunderstanding of the honorific 'Ms' ?

662 replies

ChinkChink · 28/08/2017 11:06

Inspired by another thread.

I've come across many people who believe that 'Ms' is the honorific for a divorced woman, rather than the female equivalent of 'Mr'. People including several employers, managers, supervisors etc, plus friends and family who I'd normally regard as clued up. And many of them women. Confused

I do welcome the introduction of the term 'Mx' as a title to be used when gender is irrelevant [almost always!] but I fear that Mx will go the same way - people will interpret it as a title for someone who is [for example] transgender.

What say you, MN massive?

OP posts:
theymademejoin · 28/08/2017 13:01

@echt - I agree completely. I'm mid 50's. Most of my friends are Ms (or Dr) and have been since early adulthood. A very occasional one changed her name on marriage but most didn't. I think it seems to be less "the norm" these days to keep your name when married.

I think the advances made by feminists re equal pay etc have lulled some women into a false belief that we have equality. You just have to look at the pay disparity or where the burden of childcare falls to know that is not the case. I think the labelling of women through the use of nuanced honorifics based on their relationship status contributes to the downgrading of women's status. We are defined by our marital status, rather than our own achievements. This does not happen to men.

And yes, I know it's personal choice etc but hearing women say that Ms implies radical feminist, as if being a feminist is something to be ashamed of, is sad and doesn't recognise that the advances that have been made in women's rights are due to the work of feminists, some of whom died for those rights. I'm a feminist. I can't understand why any thinking woman does not identify as a feminist. Sure, there are some nutter feminists but there are also nutter christians, nutter socialists, nutter conservatives etc.

I think the french/german/spanish approach is best. Frau etc once you hit adulthood. No indication of marital status.

EyesUnderARock · 28/08/2017 13:01

If I have to chose a title other than First/Last name, I'm Ms.
Married for decades, kept my birth names.

sweetbitter · 28/08/2017 13:01

I'm Ms and always have been, always will be. I think it's totally outdated for women to be signalling their marital status in their title when men don't. I honestly don't give a shit if someone wants to think I'm a bitter divorcee or an old maid or whatever, it says more about them than me.

Slimthistime · 28/08/2017 13:03

Until I joined MN I didn't know the misconception existed.

The only time I heard it debated was in a workplace where some idiot man tried to tell a colleague she was "hiding" her marriage.

Oncewaswho · 28/08/2017 13:05

I've been a Ms since I was about 18, to me it just implies adult woman. If people think that makes me divorced, radical, lesbian, whatever then that's up to them. Funnily enough they don't think DH is divorced, gay or radical in any way when he uses the equivalent title for an adult man, Mr.

motherinferior · 28/08/2017 13:10

Of course I'm Ms.

paradoxicalInterruption · 28/08/2017 13:13

Ms since 18 or so, married at 40, kept name and Ms.

MakChoon · 28/08/2017 13:14

When I read the OP I was quite surprised that there were still some people who misunderstand Ms.

And now having read some of the comments I'm ShockConfused

How can so many people really not know what Ms means?

I've been Ms as long as I've been able to write my own title - under 10 years old.

I'm now married and still a Ms.

I'm not divorced, radical, militant or unmarried.

I'm just female.

EnidColeslaw771 · 28/08/2017 13:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GreatFuckability · 28/08/2017 13:16

I remember getting a new headteacher in my school when i was about 8, there was HUGE furore that she wanted to be known as Ms XXXXX, (she was divorced i believe) in a crap school on a council estate in wales, in the late 1980s it was like she'd announced herself as teacher by day, hooker by night. i'll never forget my Dm's sniffy 'thinks shes well special that one'. No one liked her from that moment on. Grin

so, it could be worse OP!

Bumblebzz · 28/08/2017 13:16

I'm a Ms and always will be (unless I return to academia and become a Dr lol).
I'm married and I have not and will never change my name, but I was quite happy for DH to change to my name if he so wished. (He didn't). However even if he had he'd still be a Mr. Different rules for men and I am hoping to see them obsolete one day. (The rules, not men).
As for people assuming in a divorcee because I'm a Ms, I've genuinely never encountered this but I don't really care about uneducated people's misconceptions. And there is nothing wrong with being divorced anyway.

paradoxicalInterruption · 28/08/2017 13:18

Me too. Married, kept name.

dontslouchdarling · 28/08/2017 13:20

I have also avoided this (mostly) by being a PhD and using Dr as my title wherever possible - but it's not always an option so I flit between Ms and Miss - not really keen on either. Been with DP 15 years and 2 children but not married. DCs have his name though so I still sometimes get letters addrssed to Mrs DPsSurname. If someone rings up asking "is that Mrs DPsSurname?" I just reply that no-one of that name lives here Grin

Enko · 28/08/2017 13:21

I like Mrs I dont care for Ms or Mx I don't care what others want. IF they want to call themselves Ms/mx/miss/mrs they can do so. I will use it as I am aware but if not I go with the one that comes to me as I think of that person.

Buxtonstill · 28/08/2017 13:21

To be honest, I really don't give a shite if the car salesman/airport check in staff/restaurant booker/random etc etc make an assumption on whether I am married/divorced/single based on the prefix I use with my surname. One of the advantages of getting old is that you learn not to give a flying fig over others opinions and judgements!

FrancisCrawford · 28/08/2017 13:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

badbadhusky · 28/08/2017 13:24

I couldn't be a Ms at an old workplace as choosing that option on the database meant you had to have a previous surname!

Couldn't you just put the same name in that field?

Bumblebzz · 28/08/2017 13:24

And totally concur with #theymademejoin above, what thinking woman would not want to identify as a feminist...the mind boggles.

Yura · 28/08/2017 13:25

The best explanation I've heard:
Miss: unmarried
Mrs : married
Ms: none of your business!

Silverstreaks · 28/08/2017 13:26

I've been Ms since legally becoming an adult. I was a radical lefty feminist.
Now I'm married I'm still Ms, kept my surname and am a mainstream feminist although have dabbled with lesbianism.
As Kurrikurri says its more a 'mind your own business' kind of salutation.
It has never crossed my mind that it was divorce specific.
I might start using Mx. Pronounced Mux. That should entertain for a while.

ThymeLordIsSpartacus · 28/08/2017 13:26

Ms implies a certain kind of female

Is that a serious comment? What kind of female are you referring to?

PetalHead · 28/08/2017 13:27

MaroonPencil if forms don't offer me the option of Ms, I always choose Mr. That includes our school's communication system so they send me messages addressed to Mr Petalhead. (Not confused with ex as I have my own different surname.) I'd rather be Mr than Mrs or Miss, because as well as nosing into your marital status, they both sound so twee and old-fashioned to me.

PetalHead · 28/08/2017 13:30

Ms implies a certain kind of female

Way to miss the point! It may carry certain connotations among certain people, but the point about Ms is that it doesn't denote anything about you except that you're female. Whereas Mrs and Miss very clearly do and indeed that is the point of them - to put you in a box according to whether you've managed achieve the goal for all women of getting married.

KatharinaRosalie · 28/08/2017 13:34

It's interesting that people have said they would get angry/upset at being called Ms. - but how will people know I'm married then?? They are clearly saying I look like one of those radical feminists Grin

EBearhug · 28/08/2017 13:42

I first remember hearing Ms in the early '80s, when we had a new teacher, Ms T. People did say it meant she was divorced - I have no idea I'd she was or not.

I've been Ms on and off since my late teens, depending on the form I have to fill in - on a number of long-standing accounts, I am still Miss. My mother always addressed post to me as Ms from when I went to uni. My preference is no title at all - I would rather receive post to E Bearhug rather than Ms E Bearhug. Most of the time, it's not relevant that I'm male or female, let alone married or not. But it's amazing how few forms allow the option for no title. I suspect there is a link here to programming being a male-dominated profession. They don't have to go through any of this.

I'm never Mrs Bearhug, though. That was my mother and grandmother and aunt (none of whom was born a Bearhug.) I have noticed that if I am talking to some sort of service provider, they now tend to ask "and you're Mrs...?" rather than, "your name is Miss...?" Don't remember anyone asking, "you're Ms....?"

I can have a bank card with no title, but I can't have an account without a title.