To be frustrated by the misunderstanding of the honorific 'Ms' ?

[ChinkChink]

Inspired by another thread.

I've come across many people who believe that 'Ms' is the honorific for a divorced woman, rather than the female equivalent of 'Mr'. People including several employers, managers, supervisors etc, plus friends and family who I'd normally regard as clued up. And many of them women.

I do welcome the introduction of the term 'Mx' as a title to be used when gender is irrelevant [almost always!] but I fear that Mx will go the same way - people will interpret it as a title for someone who is [for example] transgender.

What say you, MN massive?

I kept my disappointment to myself. Because I am polite.

Fair enough. I would hope my loved ones care about me and my achievements more than my title. I'd bristle at someone saying their relatives were a disappointment for not changing their names, so I feel the same about someone being disappointed that they have.

I've also used ms since I was 18.

if anyone has a problem with it, I just think they're idiots and go on my way.

Yes I find it annoying that people have to make any comment about Ms. I've never had anyone ask if I'm divorced, but regularly get idiotic comments like like "ooh, a feminist, best be careful what I say!"

I think it's changing, especially as lots of teachers seem to be 'Ms' now (assuming this isn't just the 3 schools my children have attended), so hopefully a generation of kids is growing up thinking of Ms as perfectly normal.

I agree with whoever said they wish we were similar to European countries where Madame, etc indicate a woman rather than a girl and not marital status. I think lots of people aren't quite sure how to pronounce 'Ms', and I like Mx as an idea but how would you say that out loud?

When responding to emails from customers I call all female customers Ms unless they have specified a title themselves.

I have had a number of customers take offence, they have been married and somewhat acidly insisted on Mrs. But still, I think a status neutral approach is more polite unless otherwise requested. V

I changed my name on marriage but no one I cared about was disappointed I kept my disappointment to myself. Because I am polite.
Yes, same here. I always feel a bit sad when a woman changes her name on marriage, but obviously I would never say anything.

I have to confess I always believed Ms was for divorcees - oops! I am divorced but always use Miss, I also always tick 'single' rather than divorced because I just pretend the marriage never happened in my head

"ooh, a feminist, best be careful what I say!"

My usual response to this is "I assume all people with ovaries and a brain are feminists, why wouldn't they be?"

I started being Ms at 16 and I will keep plugging away with it, because over time I think it is becoming more normal and accepted. many newspapers/sites now for example will use Ms for any women as a default, unless she is known to use Mrs or Miss herself. Though I still encounter sexism everywhere I look, I get less and less grief over being Ms. I always correct people (nicely) and always use Ms on all paperwork and forms and over almost 30 years of that I have noticed less of the aggressive, faux-confused or presumptive reactions. Most customer service people now are (finally) familiar with it and respectful of it as of course they should be.

You know hoe transgender issues have been having a massive "moment" and it's become fashionable to be very accepting of them? Aside from the debate about the feminist aspects of that, it's a thing that tends to happen with all kinds of issues - a tipping point where suddenly something becomes acceptable and, very shortly after that, flavour or the month. A similar thing has happened with mental health issues. Well, I think the same will happen with feminism/equality. It may be the last over the line and it's a bloody stubborn nut to crack, but one day it will be suddenly become obvious to everyone that Ms makes sense if we want equality.

"ooh, a feminist, best be careful what I say!"

"Why, are you a massive chauvinist when you get the chance?" :o

I'm a Ms. - A lot of people assume it means I am divorced. Or maybe they think I am a lesbian? (That hadn't occured to me until someone suggested it upthread - I don't give a monkey's anyway if they do) I am divorced, but I don't want to use Miss because I feel I am too old for Miss, and I don't want to use Mrs because I never liked Mrs even when I was married.

I really use it to mean 'mind your own business' I don't know why anyone needs to know whether you are married or not unless you wish to tell them.

Why is a title necessary anyway, ever?
I can't think of any circumstances in which its useful.

The only place I've come across the Ms=divorced thing is on here.

I'm in my 50s and used Ms from when I left school, before I was married and when I got married (didn't change name). If I ever divorced (not planning to!) I would remain Ms.

I don't want to be defined by my marital status. I can't see that it's relevant or anyone's business.

While I'm very happy being married to DH, I don't see it as a badge of honour that should be reflected in my name.

Fair enough. I would hope my loved ones care about me and my achievements more than my title. I'd bristle at someone saying their relatives were a disappointment for not changing their names, so I feel the same about someone being disappointed that they have

Did I mention relations? I meant anyone I knew, actually. I think it, I don't say it.

Semaphorically

Spot on.

Maybe men should be called Master until they get married and can then be called Mister?

Do you think the French or Spanish get so wound up over their titles? Do they have a non status equivalent or just stick with Mademoiselle / Madame, Senora/Senorita? Perhaps we could ask the east Europeans and Slavics to stop genderising their names entirely with 'ski / 'ska / 'skie , or 'rny / 'rna / 'rne etc

I agree titles aren't actually essential but they are pretty ingrained in society and people do like to use their earned titles such as Dr. Plus it's seen as good manners to sat "Ms Whatever" rather than your first name in a lot of work, customer etc situations. Therefore people are going to use titles and as long as that's the case, I want mine to be equivalent to the one men get.

I do my bit at work, unless anyone clearly gives me their details as Miss or Mrs Firstname Surname, then I don't ask and give them Ms. If there was an option not to add a title then I wouldn't add one for anyone.

If I have to call anyone for anything I stand and say "I am looking for Firstname Surname" and add in a hard stare at the most likely person if no one moves! It's amazing how many people completely switch off in waiting rooms when they KNOW they are there for an appointment, but that's a whole other issue!

If I get a prickly vibe from anyone after calling out their whole name I will ask if they have a preference for how to be addressed, but that is so rare, but it does help for when you have to pass people on to other members of staff, if folks like to be called anything in particular.

Addressing letters ....I just use firstname lastname....no title.

No I don't agree. It's for folk who don't want to be Mrs or Miss. Nothing to do with being single married or divorced IMHO.

How do you pronounce Mx? Max/Mex/Mix/Mox/Mux?

I've always gone by Ms, never married or divorced.

Why do we need a title at all?

I got married last year, but kept my surname and I choose to be addressed as Ms rather that Mrs. I so enjoyed a male friend mansplaining to me that Ms was for old spinsters and has been used throughout history as such. That is not remotely correct.

If my husband can be addressed as Mr whether married or unmarried, why should I be defined by my marital status by being a Mrs?

Another radical feminist/lesbian Ms. Oh no, I'm a heterosexual suburbanite whose political interests extend to sending emails about rubbish collection. Ms. Precisely because I don't want to announce my sex life to the world and regard my marriage as a good thing but of interest to nobody other than my immediate family. Who don't call me Ms anyway.

Sadly I agree that this is anot issue that has died away rather and my younger associates many of whom are evangelical Christians marrying at 22 in order to have sex, absoutely love virtue signalling by being Mrs Husbandsname. Because obviously a Ms is a whore. How far we have come.

I have been Miss forever due to being essentially lazy, but agree that there should be either a generic honorific or age based ones such as in Germany/France.