To be frustrated by the misunderstanding of the honorific 'Ms' ?

[ChinkChink]

Inspired by another thread.

I've come across many people who believe that 'Ms' is the honorific for a divorced woman, rather than the female equivalent of 'Mr'. People including several employers, managers, supervisors etc, plus friends and family who I'd normally regard as clued up. And many of them women.

I do welcome the introduction of the term 'Mx' as a title to be used when gender is irrelevant [almost always!] but I fear that Mx will go the same way - people will interpret it as a title for someone who is [for example] transgender.

What say you, MN massive?

Oh and I live in a fairly rural area now, but most of the schools I worked in were in London or around Oxford, so hardly backwaters.

You know what Mrs is supposed to be without a vowel, so why not just apply a little logic and the general rules of English?

That is kind of my point. One general rule is that you need a vowel sound. I know how Mrs is pronounced because it has been pronounced a certain way by most English speakers for a long time. People are debating on this thread about how Ms is pronounced and some are saying, "well, I say Mzz." OK, so what is the sound between the M and the z? Because where I come from there is only one pronunciation.

I know the plural of anecdote isn't data, but when I was at secondary school in the 90s there were at least three teachers who used Ms. This was at a 'bog standard' comprehensive.

Have never heard of this idea that a Ms is divorced. Ever. How odd.

School kids - rather bizarrely - call Mrs "Missssssss" and Miss "Mrs".
Gotta love 'em!

I've only every heard the divorced thing on MN.

At work, we just use firstname, lastname (which doesn't fit all cultures.) There are no titles used, and not everyone has a profile picture showing online. I've recently been doing a lot of work with people in Singapore and Hong Kong. I don't even know what sex most of them are, let alone anything about their marital status or anything like that. And that's fine, because I don't need to know that. What I need them for is to tell me which switch port a server is plugged into, and exciting* things like that. Titles just aren't relevant.

• Other adjectives are available.

I wonder what teenage girls think about this? Most of them seem very clued-up about calling people the right pronouns and not 'misgendering' people, so you'd think they would embrace the idea of modern and fair honorifics. I somehow doubt it though - I suspect many would question why we need honorifics at all, and find them a bit old fashioned. Which is fair enough really, when you consider that we could just use our actual first names and surnames.

I seldom get mail with a title. It's usually just first name last name, and the salutation is the same. It's an old Quaker practice that seems to be making a comeback and high time.

Some background on Ms.

www.nytimes.com/2009/10/25/magazine/25FOB-onlanguage-t.html?mcubz=3

we could just use our actual first names and surnames That seems an excellent plan.

Yes, I think it is, derxa. It would feel weird at first for teachers to be called by their first names by pupils etc but I can't help but think it's the way forward. I mean really, what's so offensive or disrespectful about calling a human being by their name, whatever age you are?!

I feel my first name is quite personal, and i choose who uses it. Most people, fine, but not cold callers, not 15 year old yobs yelling abuse and swearing at me in school, not people I dislike.... so no, I think we need the titles.

Someone at work has just booked me a plane ticket with Mrs on it.

Not only I'm not married, but I have my original surname and I'm a bloody Dr.

Must have words.

Here's a state boy's school in the suburbs of Manchester. For Derxa:
www.burnage.manchester.sch.uk/index.php/bmac-teaching-staff

I've worked in schools where the school policy is first names only. I got used to it, but lots of pupils hated it, and so I gave them permission to continue to call me "miss". Also lots of parents refused, and got upset at being told to.

Its a cultural thing, to some extent, although we all have an informal name from those closest to us, and if we don't keep our first names private, then there will be nick names, or something,

In many international schools across the world, first names are used, but with the title, so Miss Jane, or mr John, etc. NEVER heard Ms in that situation!

Here's a state boy's school in the suburbs of Manchester. For Derxa:

that is just horrific, i would be contacting my union.

Here's a state boy's school in the suburbs of Manchester. For Derxa:
Thanks

that is just horrific, i would be contacting my union

I'm sure they'd get right on that

I've worked in loads of schools and don't think I've ever heard a teacher called "Ms" by their pupils.

Surely if you wanted to hide the fact that you were single you'd use Mrs rather than Ms?

I don't want to hide anything!

I'm sure they'd get right on that hmm

I know they have taken action against a similar situation in a work place.

that is just horrific, i would be contacting my union.

Maybe all the female staff there want to be 'Ms'?

Maybe all the female staff there want to be 'Ms'?

maybe, but I find that extremely unlikely