To be frustrated by the misunderstanding of the honorific 'Ms' ?

[ChinkChink]

Inspired by another thread.

I've come across many people who believe that 'Ms' is the honorific for a divorced woman, rather than the female equivalent of 'Mr'. People including several employers, managers, supervisors etc, plus friends and family who I'd normally regard as clued up. And many of them women.

I do welcome the introduction of the term 'Mx' as a title to be used when gender is irrelevant [almost always!] but I fear that Mx will go the same way - people will interpret it as a title for someone who is [for example] transgender.

What say you, MN massive?

teachers are called by their titles only when using their sirename, which is less than 1% of the occasions anyone addresses them.

The rest of the time it is sir or miss
Yes that's what happens in secondary
In primary it's Mr/Miss/Mrs surname almost without exception. And I've taught in all sorts of schools.

@BananasAreGood - we're obviously ashamed that we're not single.

And I have never seen Ms as a title on a school website.

Copperbeech33 I think that you must live in a smallminded community where all women are defined by their relationships to men. Even you want to shout it from the rooftops that you don't have a man.

Ms just means female. End of.

@derxa - really? The very conservative, catholic school my kids attend use only Ms and Mr on the school website.

I said this earlier in the thread, but will say it again. If using Ms means you are ashamed of your life choices and trying to hide them, why does Mr not mean the same thing for men?

There also seem to be some very sheltered people on MN. I know a lot of people who use Ms; I also use it in work emails as a default title for women, and have never had a single complaint.

@bookworm14 - because they are Men. They have achievements of their own and don't need to be defined by their relationships.

Indeed, theymademejoin!

But realistically, derxa, how many school websites have you looked at (and consciously paid attention to a small detail most people wouldn't notice)? A huge amount. I'm very big on detail.

I just googled "Ms Smith school" and not one Ms. They were all Mrs and Miss Smith.

This thread is actually hilarious.

I must remember to tell my DH that I'm a radical feminist lesbian who is ashamed of my life choices.

I was a supply teacher and visited a huge amount of schools and I usually looked at their websites. Previous to that if I was applying for jobs I would look at their websites. I went to lots of training for various roles and not a single Ms. Is it a London thing?

Try searching ms school staff :uk derxa, that brings up lots of hits.

I think people are getting mixed up between spelling and pronunciation.

Possibly. I often think we need a special phonetic guide for MN, with all our different accents. But one rule should be if you are referencing the pronunciation of a syllable, you need a vowel. a, e, i/y, o, or u. Take your pick. I apologize for my ignorance or lack of being able to read minds, but I don't know what sound Mzz is supposed to be without a vowel.

but I don't know what sound Mzz is supposed to be without a vowel

You know what Mrs is supposed to be without a vowel, so why not just apply a little logic and the general rules of English?

Yes I see now. Looks like a metropolitan and public school thing.
I'm too invested here. I need to lie down in a darkened room.

must remember to tell my DH that I'm a radical feminist lesbian who is ashamed of my life choices.

Me too - after 27 years together, it'll come as a bit of shock to him though

Me too - after 27 years together, it'll come as a bit of shock to him though

The feminist bit won't shock my dh but the lesbian bit definitely will .

I work in an all girls state secondary school in London. All female teachers are Ms.
We are called this because we are female and strive for equality. It has to start somewhere.

I've been a secondary school teacher for over 20 years, in quite a number of schools - mixed , single sex, state and private - with hundreds of female colleagues. With one or two exceptions, they have all been Miss Surname, Mrs Surname or just 'Miss' regardless of marital status. Even the one or two whose preferred honorific was 'Ms' were mostly called 'Miss' by the kids. I had a teacher who was a Ms when I was at school in the 80s. Everyone (including the teacher herself) pronounced it as Mzz. I can't think of any of my (generally well-educated and non-old-fashioned) friends or acquaintances who prefer Ms.