To not pay this childminding bill

[Ellie6578]

My one year old goes to a childminder 4 days a week whilst I'm working since October last year, I've had no issues so far.

My dd visits her dad for 2 weeks every 6 weeks, so she doesn't go to the childminder during these times (he lives up north and I'm down south) however I understand that I still have to pay for her missed days in order to secure her place (her dad pays for these 2 weeks of missed time) and that's fine as my contract states I have to pay for 4 days a week even if my dd doesn't attend.

She came back this week after only 4 days of being with her dad unlike the normal 14 days. This was because her dad had to go to Germany for a few days for work and my little girl really would not settle with his mum.

I messaged my childminder and said my dd had come home early and would she be able to have her tomorrow as normal. My childminder stated she could not have her for another 4 days as she had taken in another child for childcare which took up my daughters space. Ok I thought, my mum took time off work to look after her.

I got the invoice yesterday and I've been charged for those 4 days even though I was told my daughter couldn't go in because she had filled her space! So if I paid for it, the Childminder's earning double for half the work. Aibu not to pay for those 4 days?!

60percentbanana If you give a discount when they go on holiday and do the occasional favour then there is obviously an incentive to give you notice of holidays. In the case of OP's childminder and it seems other childminders there is no incentive though and once parents work this out they won't let their childminder know if they are going away until the last minute and they also won't tell them in advance how long they will be away for. It will be tough like for the childminder if this inconveniences them as there is nothing they can do about it.

like luck

What CM should have done, on this occasion, was explained to you that as your DD wouldn't require the space she had taken another child in for those times on those days so if your plans changed, unfortunately, your space wouldn't be available that week but that she wouldn't charge you either. She is being unreasonable and I think she is being cheeky.

Exactly this!
I really can't see how the cm can justify charging you for the days you paid for in full, when she was unavailable.

As others have said, it can be very difficult when life is planned out and suddenly there is a huge change. When you are dealing with the needs of several families it can be very hard to turn and change everything, so not surprised a message the day before wouldn't be enough to change plans to accommodate an unexpected child, even if the space was paid for. However to charge for the space still after that may not be on- it depends. With ratios as they are it may be that CM has taken on a child in another space that covers the ratio this child falls under- like a newborn taking the space of two 4 year old for example. Probably not the case but a possibility. All I mean is it may not be a straightforward as half the work for twice the pay. Regardless, to charge still, unless in contract with that contingency, isn't on.

YADNBU! You are paying for that space to be kept open in case you need it and if you don't need her she then isn't losing out on money because she could have filled the space. She can't just fill it with another child regardless of whether you need it or not. I absolutely wouldn't pay.

If she insists you pay even after you reason with her, I wouldn't use her again. That kind of person is not who I would want looking after my child.

Out of order childminder there.

She filled the space that you pay for that should be available to you should your exact situation arise.
She filled the space therefore she hasn't lost funds.
Cm should not be charging you for the space now as she isn't out of pocket.

Rubbish the other posters saying you should pay,why should you if someone else has paid for and utilised the space???

I would reply in a polite but direct manner saying thanks for invoice cm,think there's a slight admin error though as you filled the days that I normally pay for which meant you couldn't take dc for me so I will deduct those from the invoice and pay corrected fee.
Have a great weekend.

What CM should have done, on this occasion, was explained to you that as your DD wouldn't require the space she had taken another child in for those times on those days so if your plans changed, unfortunately, your space wouldn't be available that week but that she wouldn't charge you either. She is being unreasonable and I think she is being cheeky.

I actually think it's a bit worse than this. I'd be unnerved to learn that she had been selling the spot twice, and coming clean only when caught out by happenstance.

I think we can all see that the spirit of the agreement is that the CM was not to be out of pocket during the four weeks. The least she could have done was told the OP, and offered her a discount.

Amazon
It's not black and white in.the way you infer.

The space belongs to ops child. Cm is not at liberty to give it to someone else without prior arrangement with op I.e. op was taking dd away for 2 weeks and would definately not be there and cm could vaive fee for that period.

If cm had decided to go off on holiday she should have checked with all clients to let them know and double check they wouldn't need the space.

If you're paying full price then the place should be free for you to use it.

If you're paying a reduced rate retainer fee then I think she was fine to take another child.

She should have been up front about things.

I clicked on this thinking the op would be u.

I absolutely agree in this situation you need to talk to the childminder. If she doesn't wish to be available for those weeks then the most she can share is a retainer fee eg half fees.

To charge full fees and not be willing to work is not on.

Gokdilocjs

Cm is not allowed to take another child when she is being paid to keep that space for another. She cannot take a child that overlaps with ops child's space and puts her over her ratios.
Babies do not take up more spaces than any other child. They are in a different category to 4yr old's but one space. I.e you can have 3 x 4 yr old's but 1 baby and 2 4yr olds. Only 3 under 5yrs and only 1 baby in that number ( unless you have risk assessed you can manage more for siblings, continuity of care etc and have the required space in your house)

There is no reason ops child couldn't be taken by cm apart from maybe a specific outing planned that required tickets and couldn't get more.

Same here Hibble

You should not pay. I like the poster's suggestion from a few pages back, suggesting she made a mistake.

If you are paying full price for the space then the space needs to be available to you for that time. She can't charge you for a full space and then not let you use it.
Different if you were paying a smaller retainer, and she wasn't expecting you, but she's got a great deal already to be paid for not doing anything for 2 weeks out of 6

I would offer to pay half this time as a 'goodwill gesture' and a bit short notice perhaps. However, I would definitely have a chat to clear things up in case it happens again. I would think if you are expected to pay to keep the place, then the place should be available otherwise what are you paying for exactly?

Completely agree you shouldn't have to pay.

I used to pay a CM for the whole morning session even though DS2 was at nursery for half of the morning. On one occasion there was a nursery inset day so I asked CM (with about 2 weeks' notice) to have him for the whole morning. She refused because she was going to the dentist. Even though she completely agreed with me that his place was already paid for for the whole morning.

But OP's situation is even more unreasonable, given that her CM is being paid by two different parents for one child's space....

God no, don't pay half! It only encourages such poor behaviour and lack of business sense.

I don't understand the issue
In the opening post, op says her ex pays for the missed sessions

It doesn't matter who pays for them, the CM can't charge twice.

Why not?

Why can't someone charge for a cm space that is already reserved and paid for in full for someone else? Gee, lets think. Or you know, RTFT where it has been well explained several times over?

YANBU - don't pay it. You are paying to keep the space open but it wasn't 'open' when you needed it.

But it's not reserved though
If the norm is for the space to be not used during those times, then I don't see why the cm cant then sell that spot to somebody else
It's normal practice in a nursery setting to charge for days booked but not used and then to sell that space to another child
The only issue is the short notice that the op gave that she did want to use that space
In fairness the cm should offer another day in lieu but with ratios might not have the space

It IS reserved. What do you think the OP is paying for then?

Seriously, this is not difficult.

I'm a childminder and have the same policy that if the child doesn't attend and I am available to work then the parent pays. The reason she is asking you to pay is to hold the space which i would also do as you can't generally fill spaces on an ad-hoc basis. Presumably this has just happened as it's school hols. However, if I am not available to have your child, the parent doesn't pay. As your space was filled, then imo your childminder wasn't available to you so you shouldn't pay. She's being a bit cheeky if you ask me.

I've never known a nursery to charge a parent for a full time place and then sell that space to someone else so the parent can't use it.