To not pay this childminding bill

[Ellie6578]

My one year old goes to a childminder 4 days a week whilst I'm working since October last year, I've had no issues so far.

My dd visits her dad for 2 weeks every 6 weeks, so she doesn't go to the childminder during these times (he lives up north and I'm down south) however I understand that I still have to pay for her missed days in order to secure her place (her dad pays for these 2 weeks of missed time) and that's fine as my contract states I have to pay for 4 days a week even if my dd doesn't attend.

She came back this week after only 4 days of being with her dad unlike the normal 14 days. This was because her dad had to go to Germany for a few days for work and my little girl really would not settle with his mum.

I messaged my childminder and said my dd had come home early and would she be able to have her tomorrow as normal. My childminder stated she could not have her for another 4 days as she had taken in another child for childcare which took up my daughters space. Ok I thought, my mum took time off work to look after her.

I got the invoice yesterday and I've been charged for those 4 days even though I was told my daughter couldn't go in because she had filled her space! So if I paid for it, the Childminder's earning double for half the work. Aibu not to pay for those 4 days?!

They don't.

If the norm is for the space to be not used during those times, then I don't see why the cm cant then sell that spot to somebody else

CM can't use the spot for somebody else because the "norm" doesn't always happen as in this case. If someone has paid for the space they have the right to use it barring exceptional circumstance e.g. if other mindees are/have been taken on a trip and it is too late to join them.

I have messaged her but haven't got a reply yet.

Dd dad (who pays for her childcare) has sent me the money for it I would just rather give those 4 days of pay to my mother if anyone who took 4 days of unpaid leave rather than to her who would be getting double rate.

I am hopeful she made a mistake, does make me wonder if she has been doing this before and it's just the first time I noticed though.

No they don't but if a parent told the nursery that they didn't need the space and the nursery sold it to someone else then the space wouldn't be available at short notice but the parent would still have to pay
I

Have I missed an update from OP? Can't see it....
I'd email her (so there's a record) stating there seems to have been an admin error with the bill. You have been charged full price as expected to keep your slot open however you were not able to use it as another child has been booked in that time frame.
I would also request this to be clarified. if those two weeks are to be kept open by paying but it turns out you may or may not be able to use them, surely a discounted fee for that time is more appropriate?

She is rated as outstanding by ofsted so yes she's very popular around here. Have no issues with her before this, I'm hopeful it's a mistake or that she will deduct days off next invoice.

Have I missed an update from OP? Can't see it....

It's not highlighted as she's logged back in under a slightly different username (first 'e' isn't capitalised)

If she insists on being paid, I wouldn't give her any advance notice of when you will be away or how long you will be away for in future OP as it seems that she will just take advantage of your courtesy. Tell her your DD will be away the day before and that the trip will only be for a day. Then keeping phoning the day before to say that she will be away for another day.

insancerre - if i told my child's nursery that they wouldn't be in on x week because they were staying with granny, and at the last minute granny was unavailable I would expect to be able to use the space I had paid for. If they told me I couldn't use it because they'd resold the space I would expect my money back and I would be looking for a new nursery without such dodgy business practices.

There's really no excuse for selling the same thing twice knowing it means one buyer will not be able to access what they have paid for.

around 6 years ago my DD went to a childminder same day we had really heavy snow (traffic came to a standstill) so got DD dropped to my mums as i knew she would be fine there as mum could feed her etc and if we had to walk home then it would be fine as not too far. anyway next day childminder said she couldnt come to collect DD so i offered to drop her off as the roads had cleared a bit, childminder refused then few weeks later had the cheek to invoice me for them i told her no chance i had to take time off but she reported me to the college which i was lucky as i still had the messages with her saying no she cant take DD and needed the money for her ivf!!

Insancerre
What part of paying full pro e for that space to keep it OPEN for ops child is hard to understand?

That is her child's space not up for grabs.

No they don't but if a parent told the nursery that they didn't need the space and the nursery sold it to someone else then the space wouldn't be available at short notice but the parent would still have to pay

No they can't do that. If the parent has paid they can change their mind and still expect to use the nursery.

I hope insancerre makes it clear to her customers that if they inform her of any planned absences then she will resell their space while still charging them for it, meaning they can't use it if circumstances change. At least then they can choose not to take the risk of informing her beforehand out of courtesy.

Discodiva70 HMRC couldn't give a damn how many children we mind! They're only interested in the money we are paid.

None of the nurseries I know would do this and charge for a place that wasn't there it's very dodgy practice which actually messes up their ratios.

Child who is paying for space will be through their books as paying for that space. To take another child on in the hopes that child will not need the space could backfire as it has with cm.

Probably does this every time ops child is away and getting paid for 2 spaces possible other child is cash in hand. Not professional at all.

I wouldn't.

OP please update us when you get a response.

YADNBU
I'm certain that Judge Rinder would agree!
Hopefully it was an admin error

Firstly, I think you need to check your contract. As others have already said, there are reasons why a place may not be available at very short notice and my own contract requires 48 hours notice of any changes for this reason.
If the contract states you are liable, then it's the CM's goodwill you need to appeal to

If you are not liable, then you need to check there hasn't been a mistake made on the invoicing. The best of us make them; the biggest companies with large finance departments make them. A polite request to look at the disputed amount will be all that's needed if so.

It is possible for a place to have been taken at the last minute by another parent having an unexpected meeting, or asking to change days. Childminders - and nurseries - will try to be flexible in those circumstances. It doesn't mean we make more money, or that we're out to swindle our clients.
My own contract states that a parent won't be charged if this situation arises and their place is unavailable. It depends on what your contract says for your own childminder's policy.

It's very easy to listen to some of the dramallamas on here whipping up hysteria about how you've been robbed and demanding action. The reality is that a calm discussion is much more likely to achieve what you want without ill feeling.

Another registered childminder here.

I believe you are right and your childminder is wrong. While I do have a 24 hour policy to make changes, I'd feel awful trying to charge you for your child's space if I'd given it to another child for those four days. She appears to be very unfair to charge for those four days, and I hope too that it is an admin error. You pay for the space whether you need it or not, but if you do need it, it should be available to use. Yes, a bit of notice would be nice, but these things happen.
I hope you have a forgetful childminder and not a cheeky, money grabbing one!

YANBU but good childminder's have you over a barrel. You need them and they know it - especially if you're on your own. She's screwed you over here but you confront her about it - next time you're late she'll over charge you or say no. Make your life difficult.

If the contract states you are liable, then it's the CM's goodwill you need to appeal to
no it's not. Contracts can't just add in whatever they feel like, and you don't have to adere to contracts when they are outrageous.

Childminders aren't exactly bankers, so no need to demonise her if she's made a little extra for taking on a child briefly while yours was away.

I understand what people are saying -you paid to retain her space, someone else used it so why should you pay...

But...you can't just chop and change without notice. Not unreasonable for the childminder to require continual payment for longstanding arrangements and also not unreasonable for her to make a bit extra with short term arrangements. If she expected not to have your child, you can't really expect her to be available again at short notice.

So while technically I can see that you could make a point out of paying for a space you then couldn't use, but I guess her answer will be that chopping and changing at short notice isn't possible. It's a bit of a stalemate that might harm your relationship. How much do you like your childminder otherwise?

Exactly asper
It's the short notice that's the issue
Presumably the opntops the that she wouldn't need the space as per normal arrangements, so the cm took on another child, which she is allowed to do

If you book a hotel online and pay for it and then cancel it with short notice, you normally have to pay full price
The hotel then sells that room but you can't ring the hotel and say you've changed your mind, you want your room back, even if you have paid for it

Firstly, I think you need to check your contract. As others have already said, there are reasons why a place may not be available at very short notice and my own contract requires 48 hours notice of any changes for this reason.

Charging someone for the space when the space clearly wasn't available is not fair. Even if it is in the contract, if it is unfair then it wouldn't stand up in court. Obviously, you need notice if you are taking the children on a trip for example, but there would generally be no need for 48 hours notice and if you do demand this any parent with any sense will not let you know if their child will not be arriving until the last minute. Then they always have the option to change their mind and there would be nothing you can do about it.