To not pay this childminding bill

[Ellie6578]

My one year old goes to a childminder 4 days a week whilst I'm working since October last year, I've had no issues so far.

My dd visits her dad for 2 weeks every 6 weeks, so she doesn't go to the childminder during these times (he lives up north and I'm down south) however I understand that I still have to pay for her missed days in order to secure her place (her dad pays for these 2 weeks of missed time) and that's fine as my contract states I have to pay for 4 days a week even if my dd doesn't attend.

She came back this week after only 4 days of being with her dad unlike the normal 14 days. This was because her dad had to go to Germany for a few days for work and my little girl really would not settle with his mum.

I messaged my childminder and said my dd had come home early and would she be able to have her tomorrow as normal. My childminder stated she could not have her for another 4 days as she had taken in another child for childcare which took up my daughters space. Ok I thought, my mum took time off work to look after her.

I got the invoice yesterday and I've been charged for those 4 days even though I was told my daughter couldn't go in because she had filled her space! So if I paid for it, the Childminder's earning double for half the work. Aibu not to pay for those 4 days?!

You think she can if it is in the contract. Almost everyone else including most CM are saying that she can't even if she has slipped it into the contract because it would be an unreasonable contract term and therefore not enforceable.

No I haven't said she has to pay if it's in the contract, read my posts.

I've said that it depends on what the contract says and OP needs to check it carefully as well as speaking to the CM. I've not said whether the CM is right or wrong and I've not said whether the OP is right or wrong.

If it says deposit then the space is not held open and the money is a deposit to ensure it is available from a specified date, in which case OP is liable.

If it says retainer then the space is reserved for the OP and must be made available as and when she needs it.

Throughout the thread I've advocated checking the contract and speaking to the childminder, both of which are the sensible course of action.

Every 6 weeks the childminding business has 8 days for an extra child. You surely cannot expect her to give up an opportunity to earn some extra money on the off chance that the Op would change her mind. Nor could you expect her to take a child into this space without any extra income. She is running a business and it seems fair to me.

If it was a DEPOSIT it wouldn't be the FULL FEE for the time.

Honestly if you are going to keep arguing, at least understand the terms!

Every 6 weeks the childminding business has 8 days for an extra child

No it doesn't. The 8 days childcare are already paid for by someone else it is their space, there is no extra to give.
You surely cannot expect her to give up an opportunity to earn some extra money on the off chance that the Op would change her mind

You can. because that is being paid twice and its cheating. It's like if you had an office job and you were quiet in work so you brought in your own work from your business and did that all day at your desk

Nor could you expect her to take a child into this space without any extra income
She shouldn't be taking the extra child at all

She is running a business and it seems fair to me

She's running a scam and it's only fair if you like to scam people.

Skittykitty I am reading your posts and you are contradicting yourself. On the one hand, you state that you" haven't said that she has to pay if it's in the contract".

Then you state that if "it says deposit then the space is not held open and the money is a deposit to ensure it is available from a specified date, in which case OP is liable".
Which is it? Do you think OP is liable depending on the terms of the contract or not?

So did the OP ring PACEY and get advice? Even the CAB would be able to deal with this.

A deposit is a sum of money paid in advance as a kind of pledge or agreement of some future purchase.

If I book a holiday and pay a deposit, it means I am committing to pay the balance at the later specified time. Sometimes deposits are refundable if one party wants out of the agreement; sometimes not.

If I pay the full amount for my holiday, that is not a deposit- I have purchased the holiday.

I haven't said she automatically has to pay it. I've said if it's a deposit then she's liable, if it's retainer then it isn't but she needs to check the contract.

I'm withdrawing now. It's like arguing with fucking mince.

YANBU- I wouldn't pay it. You have paid for place and it should be available to you

I think that's a good idea skitty as you have no idea of the difference between a deposit and payment in full.

I haven't said she automatically has to pay it. I've said if it's a deposit then she's liable, if it's retainer then it isn't but she needs to check the contract.

Nobody thinks you are arguing that she "automatically" has to pay it. They are arguing against your assertion that she might have to pay it depending on the wording of the contract because most people think NOTHING in the contract would make the charge reasonable. And if the charge is unreasonable it won't be enforceable whether it is in the contract or not.

I'm withdrawing now. It's like arguing with fucking mince

Yep, and you're the mince.

Stop wittering about the difference between deposits and retainers when you don't understand the meaning of the words. It's not a bloody deposit when its paid in full, for the 74th time!

Blimey - this one has got a bit heated! I can see what people are saying about potential wordings in the contract. It does sound unreasonable though, and I'm very surprised that in the case where the place was suddenly required again but not available, the childminder didn't waive the fee for those days - no shame!
It seems unlikely that the contract is going to explicitly say that the childminder has the right to fill the place with another child while you are paying for it, in which case the default position is that it's your place while you're paying for it, whenever you need it. Personally I'd threaten to move the child elsewhere and see if they concede the point: the childminder probably likes being paid for a place which is only used 2/3 of the time...

It also makes me wonder what what have happened if at any point up to now, the arrangements with the child's father had changed and the OP had needed continuous care from the cm. Would the cm have turned round and said, oh well you've only paid a deposit for those fortnights; you've now got to pay me more because I'm actually providing childcare. sod the fact the weeks are already fully paid up
Any reasonable person can see that the cm is (quite reasonably) charging to keep that place open, since it would indeed be difficult to fill with another child. Where the cm has cocked up is in agreeing to take on another child to make a bit of extra dosh. Now shes been caught out.
OP - please come back and update us!

OP please just speak to your CM. Maybe re-read your contract first.

I think the child minder is wrong and being greedy but I'd pay it. Yes it will leave a bad taste in your mouth but your wee girl is one. If I had cross words with my child minder id worry that my baby wouldn't get the same attention anymore especially when I was away at work. Id just make sure next time to get everything clear in advance especially now you know what she is like.

I took part in this thread on Saturday and I'm firmly in the "OP should not pay camp" BUT, as far as I am aware, OP has only updated once that she had sent a text to CM and hasn't bothered updating the thread - is this right or have I missed something?

OP has only posted 4 times, it's true, and hasn't posted a reply from the CM - but that might be because the CM hasn't replied.

It's harder to spot her now she's got an uncapitalised name, as she's no longer highlighted as the OP as well.

Perhaps the OP made a mistake and the CM didn't charge her afterall!

@Ellie6578 - What have you decided to do? Are you going to discuss this with your childminder or are you going to do something else?
Please come back and update us...