To not pay this childminding bill

[Ellie6578]

My one year old goes to a childminder 4 days a week whilst I'm working since October last year, I've had no issues so far.

My dd visits her dad for 2 weeks every 6 weeks, so she doesn't go to the childminder during these times (he lives up north and I'm down south) however I understand that I still have to pay for her missed days in order to secure her place (her dad pays for these 2 weeks of missed time) and that's fine as my contract states I have to pay for 4 days a week even if my dd doesn't attend.

She came back this week after only 4 days of being with her dad unlike the normal 14 days. This was because her dad had to go to Germany for a few days for work and my little girl really would not settle with his mum.

I messaged my childminder and said my dd had come home early and would she be able to have her tomorrow as normal. My childminder stated she could not have her for another 4 days as she had taken in another child for childcare which took up my daughters space. Ok I thought, my mum took time off work to look after her.

I got the invoice yesterday and I've been charged for those 4 days even though I was told my daughter couldn't go in because she had filled her space! So if I paid for it, the Childminder's earning double for half the work. Aibu not to pay for those 4 days?!

Still I don't think your wedding analogy holds up.

Paying a deposit is not the same as paying for a space to be kept open for your child at nursery.

I think legally CM would be found in breach, especially if she didn't have it in writing from OP that she didn't need a space for those days.

In any case, the CM did not lose money so she should not benefit.

OP, next time, don't tell a CM when you think DD will be at her dad's. Just call her in sick on the day.

amazonEcho
I'm not being spiteful. I just don't agree with people taking someone for an idiot and gaining from it.

She wasn't available to have her, so no I wouldn't pay.

Stilldrivingmebonkers- it's not a non-refundable deposit though is it?

The OP is paying for a space at the cm. Its not even a retainer fee, she's paying full price for a space. The fact that she doesn't always use it doesn't alter that. The cm is on to a very good thing actually, because she's earning on those days for literally holding a place open.

If she then makes that space unavailable, she's not actually adhering to the terms of the contract herself is she?

Definitely wouldn't pay, cheek of her!

stilldriving the wedding analogy makes no sense at all.

And every body works in arrears - that's just the way the world works

bonkers

The OP doesn't pay a deposit/retainer she pays in full for those days. It's nothing like a wedding venue, non refundable deposit. It's more like booking a venue, paying for it in full, then turning up to find out someone else is having a party in there.

She pays for those days. She can choose to use it or not, without notice. If the childminder isn't going to be available to have her child, then she cannot be expected to be paid for that day.

If you changed your mind at late notice then YABU. Check your contract to see what notice you have to give for changes. It is probably a few weeks notice to a month's notice.
Childminders need to be able to plan ahead. If you've led her to believe that she wasn't needed, she probably hasn't got food in for your little one. She may have organised a big day out with older mindees that is nit suitable for your little one. Maybe she's changed other mindees around so she can take her kids out one day? She can't be sat around waiting in the house just in case you change your mind at the last minute.
Flip this around....how would you feel if she said to you she was available next week and then suddenly said to you "actually, I don't fancy working this week"? Wouldn't it mess up your plans and give you a logistical nightmare?

I'd phone and suggest paying half? and then try and clarify the situation in case it crops up again.

Twobobs- Flipping things around is also irrelevant- the OP is the one paying for a service! The cm is being paid for it. OP pays for a space to be available. cm made it unavailable. End of.

That's shocking. YANBU at all. You pay for the place and she has effectively sold it twice.

Lets put it in more simple terms. If you pay a (non refundable) deposit for a wedding venue, and the wedding is called off, and the venue then rents out the hall to another wedding party, you cannot turn up and say - "I want to use this hall for 1.5 hours, that's the value of the deposit".

Not simpler - different.

Do you understand the difference between a deposit for services and a payment for services?

TwoBobs - have you read the OP's post? CM had taken another child in that space. OP was fine about it and her DM helped her out but now she has received an invoice from CM charging her full price for that space that she wasn't able to use.

Roomster they tell me because they get a nominal discount for the holiday period (25%) but also I suppose as a matter of courtesy, because they recognise that I organise trips and activities and food etc for their children. However courtesy needs to go both ways doesn't it? Sounds like it isn't doing so in the op's situation.

I think all of my families at one time or another have benefitted from an odd extra day or two in an emergency - I've done extra days for things like broken legs, seriously ill grandparents and siblings, parents exams and labour/birth, interviews and two full long weekends for stag/hen weekends, all at no charge over the past couple of years. It's never ideal to fill a holidaying childs space but I have very occasionally done so in an emergency (maybe two of the above situations involved this) but I am upfront, parents know about it, they have all benefitted at some point and, importantly, no one feels ripped off because I don't charge for the extra favours and refund the holidaying child. They are just a helping hand where I can. Maybe that's why parents tell me, because they recognise the give and take/karma and I'm not mercenary about it?

The OP has entered into a contract with the CM and has paid for the service in full. The CM has not provided the service for reasons unconnected to the OP. The CM was getting all the benefits of being paid without any of the hassle of doing the work, feeding the child etc etc and still fancied earning some more dough on top. She has sold the OPs place to someone else. When the OP has enquired about her child returning she didn't kick off and went and sorted out alternative childcare herself which could have been a real hassle under the circumstances. After all that the CM still feels entitled to full pay. I think not!

Cheeky mare, no way should you pay op, what a chancer your minder is

By saying you don't feel you should pay is breaking the terms of your contract. Your bill is not to cover childminding for those 4 days, it is to pay for keeping the place open.. There would be no point the childminder reducing your bill because that would mean she minded the other child without any increase in her own income. She is running a business on very sensible terms. I think you will serious damage your relationship if you ask for a reduction.

60percent but courtesy cuts both ways and if the CM was not available for 4 days that doesn't sound like an emergency situation. I think the OP is only complaining about being charged a full rate for a place when the CM has committed herself elsewhere.

I don't think some people understand what a contract is. She's paid for a service which the CM has not provided because she's committed herself elsewhere.

Spirited I agree completely, especially in this job! I was merely pointing out that it might occasionally happen that a cm would fill spaces etc without just being on the take.

The childminder in this instance was very lucky that the op was so understanding, and was unprofessional to push it further by billing for the holiday. I'd be wondering, as the parent, just how many times this has happened before...

You're paying for a space that isn't there, I would be asking for a refund for those 4 days.

I wouldn't being paying that. Have you spoken to her about it?
I don't have other childcare so would have had to take unpaid leave in your situation whilst paying full price for childcare.
No way.

I think a friendly..."you've tried to charge me" is in order. If she'd said she couldn't have your little one as they all had tickets to a concert or something similar but she's taken another child on probably as she assumed you'd not needed the space so could make some extra money but on this occasion it feels cheeky as you did need the space back and couldn't use it. I agree with paying for your space but if it's not available when you need it then no you shouldn't have to pay.

Don't pay for the days she couldn't take your child.
You pay fit the space she is not allowed to fill it with another child it should be your child's space only. You are paying for it she has given it to someone else so she cant have it bith ways.

She is trying it on.

NotSuchASmugMarriedNow1 Sat 26-Aug-17 11:53:54
No that's not acceptable. If you're paying for the space,then the space needs to be available for you to use

This, definitely!

It's outrageous - you pay to keep the space open and as another childminder has said, she may not be able to change something planned to suddenly fit your daughter in, like a pantomime, as the example cited, but she can't fill the space with another child and then refuse to take your daughter.

You also, very correctly, didn't expect her to have your DD at the last minute, but accepted your fate.

As I said, this is outrageous.