Wedding parent nightmare

[splatattack]

Hi...some advice needed. I am getting married in my home country (part of the UK), my parents are insisting on paying as they believe that is their role. I would ideally prefer something smaller but as they are paying and I decided to have it where they live it is a big 'traditional' wedding. I am happy with this but am still trying to plan the wedding based on mine and my partner's tastes. My parents have gone off and tried to organise things (accommodation, wine etc) without talking to me. I have been a little annoyed as I am happy to and would like to do those things myself. We have come to big blows today because matching suits for my father and the two best men won't work. They all live in different countries and are very different shapes so I told them just to each choose a suit they like and that fits well in a grey colour. This way everyone feels comfortable. They will all have the same colour shoes, same tie and I thought matching braces. My parents are completely refusing this idea as they have to all be matching. I have explained this won't work, and that it is more important to be that people feel comfortable but they have been shouting at me most of the day. I am being unreasonable and selfish. Why am I bothering to have a traditional wedding if I am not going to have matching suits...why don't I go get married in a field etc etc...there is a lot more to this argument as the fighting has been going on since we got engaged because I would like to plan my own wedding and my views just do not match theirs. AIBU to stick to my guns on this?

How bad you feel this morning is an indication of how bad you are going to feel as the day (I'd say your big day, but it won't be) gets closer. Imagine how you will feel on your wedding day when your parents are shouting at you for some imagined slight, or how you will feel when you look out on the extravagant shite your parents have chosen for you that you don't like and didn't want, or how you will feel when it gets thrown back at you - you are an adult now, have the day you and your fiancé want. It's time to say no to your parents.

Hand on heart answer this op, after the way they've treated you and your fiance plus the way they've manipulated and coerced you into a wedding day you will hate...will you and your fiance relationship with them be good?

Or will it be strained and resentful?

Plus you cannot guarantee they won't continue afterwards. My family member tries to control us all but there's one of us she really pulls the strings with. She's done far more to them then she ever did to us.

God it sounds like an absolute nightmare! I would advise just cancelling and doing it your way, but I know you said it's too late for that. Sorry OP, i really feel for you.

Dh and I got married in Vegas just the two of us (no overbearing family, we just wanted to have the wedding just us and had a lovely big reception back home). It was honestly just so so lovely not having to worry about pleasing anybody else and focus on each other. I really hope your parents see how upsetting this is for you and back off a bit, or you manage to arrange things so you're doing it your own way. I'm very much of the opinion that weddings should be about what the bride and groom want and if people don't like it they can sod off and not attend

But getting back to "normal" is you putting her feelings ahead of yours in your life. This is anything but normal.

Your last comment about cancelling this wedding ruining your relationship forever - is it not ruined anyway? If you squash down these feelings and don't process them (even privately) they will come out sideways one day and that won't be pretty for anyone.

My parents' attempted control of our wedding, after they'd had no say in my life for the years since I left home (was 30 when I married) shattered my mental health. The hope that they'd treat me as an adult with a career and a husband was in vain. Since then I've barely worked, flirted quite strongly with inpatient care, been diagnosed with anorexia and been pretty suicidal at times. It's been like post traumatic stress from what should have been a fun party. Please take this as a lesson and seek some way of dealing with this conflict and upset in you. And do something for you on the day at least - don't put their feelings first,it's totally fucked up.

Crafty that might be the way forward. We can have a blessing at the 'real' wedding instead. I am so excited to be marrying the man of my dreams...I have been through the shitter to find him (my mum has reminded me of this as it is evidence that I don't always have the best judgement)...I got screwed over hugely by my ex (stereotypical narc). So I wanted to celebrate with the people I care about, but I am stubborn enough that I want that celebration to reflect mine and my fiancé's tastes...hence the arguments.

And one of the problems is that they genuinely do not think they have been manipulative or controlling. My mum says that she didn't tell me what dress (and to be fair she did always say that the decision was up to me), to get but she puts her views out there so forcefully and not asked for that it makes me feel crap about my choices. I guess it is a remnant of a need to try and please them...doesn't everyone want to make their parents proud?

Nouveau I feel like I would like to hear more of your story?

Why should you have to marry in secret first and then go through a charade? You have nothing to hide you should be shouting from the rooftops you have found a wonderful man and be overjoyed on your wedding day. Otherwise what is the point. Seriously the invites are not out yet it isnt too late to cancel.

Your parents have lost the run of themselves OP. Either you give up and accept that nothing in the wedding they pay for will be as you want, or you cancel and pay for your choice of day.
They are clearly unable to be rational or reasonable or they wouldn't be using the "comply or our relationship is over" ploy. So I suppose it comes down to you- what is more important: the alleged relationship with your parents, which only continues as a relationship if you do what you are told, or your self respect and autonomy as an adult?

Personally I would run a mile. It's never good to give an inch to hyper controlling people or next thing you know they'll be trying to name your children.

Yes everyone wants to make their parents proud but most parents are proud of their children being independent and capable rather than being compliant.

Making your dress "your" choice but making it clear exactly what her feelings were is highly manipulative of your mother. If it was truly your choice she would have kept her feelings out of it. I am raging on your behalf that they have brought you up to please them and put their feelings ahead of your own. You will have chosen the dress you did because of years of learning that if you chose the one she didn't prefer you would get the fallout from that decision.

Interesting, by the way that you had a controlling narc ex. I wonder why you sought out those behaviours in a partner?

I'm happy to share my story by the way, I just don't want to make your thread all about me. Anything you want to hear about I'll happily share. This thread is really resonating with me - even down to the dress thing (I found a perfect one, she decided not to like it, 2 weeks later I found out the cost and from there on it was told that the reason I couldn't have it was it was "too expensive" and that had been the reason all along even though it couldn't have been).

Nouveau I guess I like hearing examples like that to see if they match my own so that I don't feel like am exaggerating how bad things are? (If that makes sense?)

And I have just told my mum everything...that I want to cancel the wedding because I feel it is now a farce, that I haven't been looking forward to it or enjoying the planning etc because every little decision I make has to be discussed first and so what it the point of wasting more money. My mum replies with 'as always this is all my fault, I am the problem, big bad me', she cries and says that from now on she will keep out, says I have made her feel incredibly guilty etc and how is she supposed to feel about the fact I am cancelling my wedding because of her. I told her stop manipulating me and she got angry..I had said earlier when she told me to just go ahead and plan it without her that she was making me feel guilty and apparently that statement makes me manipulative too...am I?

I feel like I should just keep the peace but I just woke up feeling so dejected I just can't pretend anymore...

Yes I completely understand. I also found if you took things in isolation and explained them most people thought "so what?" but of course this is everything.

I remember not caring about the cake so I let my parents win that without an argument. When I put my foot down about table centres they wouldn't see that because they had won the cake round they needed to let me win something.

Agree with pp though - you can't know they'll leave you alone afterwards because they did with your siblings. My parents seem to have a need to "break" me where they don't with the others. Possibly because I stand up to their shit on occasion.

We've been on and off no contact since the wedding now. Every time I let them back in they damage me further. My current therapist got the measure of them in 20 minutes so we're working on building up the "self" I should be and recognise. There's a glaring gap there now because I only see the bad things they have said about me. I saw you calling yourself stubborn upthread about something entirely normal. It seems you have internalised what they say about you and now behave in a way to not provoke their irrational wrath.

Sorry. Cross post.

My mother does the "it's all my fault" crap too. It's maddening and it's putting the responsibility for her feelings onto others when she is the only one responsible for her feelings!

You know what, it is her fault! She and your father have treated you with such disdain that you've got to breaking point and she should feel guilty about it. She doesn't actually feel guilty though, she's manipulating you to do what she wants. You can see that can't you?

You are conditioned to do what they want to keep the peace. And it keeps the peace for them but creates huge upset for you so it's a phoney peace anyway.

You have to work out what is right for you. If you're still at their house I suggest you go home and talk properly with your fiancé about all of this. And work out what is least worst. Unfortunately that's really what you have now - choosing the least worst path. But pick the path that is least worst for you not for them. It'll be a bumpy one (I got spectacular hate mail from my mother's minions when we cancelled) but you have to put YOU first.

Maybe speaking to someone is the way forward just so I can get a sense of what is normal...

I am fine when I am away from here, dread having to phone home so I don't do it regularly which doesn't go down well...but my mum maintains that we have a great relationship and are best friends? I tell her little more than the fluff in my life...I am scared to because I know it can be used against me later so it is easier to give them less info. When I have opened up to my mum and told her things, fights with friends or relationship drama I have regretted it later. So I tell her as little as I can get away with (stuff about work etc). I'm not sure why she thinks we are close?

Then I feel guilty because I know they would both drop anything and do anything for me if I needed it...other than give me the emotional support I need.

This is bullying not love.
She cares more about the aesthetics of the arrangement of people on a short walk through a venue than your happiness.
You maintain a "happy" relationship with her by having a lot of space or giving in to prevent potential emotional consequences. How much does she give to your happiness? Because so far she is dismissing your concerns.

This is your wedding. The first day of your marriage. At present you are sacrificing your happiness on the first day of your marriage to the extent that you are dreading it. A wedding day is about the bride, and groom, not pacifying parents.

You can't change her. You can change your reactions to her.

My mother's behaviour went downhill during my wedding planning, nothing to do with funding, it was over other relations. I snapped and took control of my reactions. When she started ranting, I'd point it out and put the phone down. Two days before the wedding there was blackmail that if I invited Y to a hypothetical Christening that she wouldn't be coming. I said "OK, that's your choice". "No it's not, you're making me do that". "No, you are choosing if you come or not. I am not deciding that for you, you are choosing not to come if Y is there"
She chose not to come to the first Christening. She did come to the second. She was invited to both. She made her own choices. I chose to put little emotional value in it. (It was disappointing that she chose to put old grudges before me, but I chose to reduce the emotional importance of it)
It's never going to be an easy relationship. Distance helps, but her behaviour has improved since I put up boundaries of what I will not tolerate and took control of my choice of reactions to it. She did behave at my wedding, and it wasn't a repeat of a previous milestone occasion that she ruined with an embarrassing public tantrum.

She is responsible for her behaviour. Take back control of your wedding day. Establish boundaries. Blackmail is not love.

You are allowing yourself to be controlled by your parents. I used to be like you until I took a step back and put firm boundaries in place. My parents still thought of me as a child that should do what they say. They no longer think that.

I think it was a mistake to let your parents pay for the wedding - who cares if they insist or would be offended if you declined. If they fall out with you over such a thing that is there issue to sort out. Your priority now is making a life with your DH - and hopefully your parents can still be part of your life if they respect you are not just a child anymore.

So glad you said something and no, you are definitely not the manipulative one here, your mother is. Please stick to your guns and have the day you and dp want. Maybe sit down with him and write out exactly what you'd like/who you'd like to invite and present this to your mother. If they are prepared to pay for this then ok but if not cancel and start again on tour terms.

*your terms

My mum can do the "it's always my fault." crying act when called on her bad behaviour - it does tend to work because then everyone wants to cheer her up and it becomes about why we made her upset, not what she did in the first place. It stopped working when my brother said "yes, yes it usually is. You keep doing X then crying when we get angry about it." and that pulled her up. He just kept agreeing that yes, it was all her fault. (this was not in the script, we were supposed to rush about trying to make her feel better now she was upset, not tell her she was right to be upset. Worked a treat.)

Tell your Mum that you've thought about it and you agree that she's going to find it hard to let go and let you plan it just you and DP, so you are cancelling, your DP and you will plan it all and not discuss details with them. If they want to give you a lump sum towards the costs, that would be welcome, but they don't need to and they aren't going to be involved in the planning because it just causes too much upset and tension between you. You'd like her to be a guest. You'd like to find a way you don't fall out about it. (ignoring the fact you clearly have already fallen out.)

Don't give in to the 'poor me' act. She should be apologising not playing the victim.

Splat, the reason you have a narc ex is because your parents are very selfish and controlling people. They have conditioned you to be a people pleaser. Yes, they do love you, in their own way. But it's not the kind of selfless love that we expect from parents, it is transactional, and dependent on control.

I know, because I have the same dynamic in my own family and it has taken many years to get to grips with. You have already learned how to manage contact with your Mum-as you describe. This is a way to maintain boundaries, and helpful in a relationship with selfish and controlling people. I also moved away too, as did my siblings. I don't blame my parents anymore as I have accepted them. But neither do I give them any control over my life. I am a bit sad when milestones and celebrations are not shared because they are not done in their way, or all about them, but I've largely made my peace with it.

My wedding was also a huge problem, luckily we refused the money. My Mum was unsupportive and hyper critical. We accommodated her where we could but ultimately had our own day. Like your folks, my parents were terrified I would do something "alternative". It damaged our relationship for a while. Ultimately I have and always will have a bit of a distant relationship with my parents, and that's ok. To have them deep in my life is harmful, and life is way too short waiting for some confidence to get thrown back. It's really ok to feel this way about your parents, and does not reflect badly on you. It's just the way things go sometimes.

I know they love me more than anything and would do anything for me

I see I'm not the first to pick up on this phrase.

Your mother sounds like a narcissist to me.

If she would do anything for you she would let you have the wedding dress you want and keep her opinions to herself. And that's just to start with.

Whatever you do and whatever you give in on, there will be some more nonsense she will think of to make it all about her and all a drama. Non symmetrical bridesmaids for fucks sake.

I have no advice but I'm posting to let you know that you are not being selfish unreasonable or at fault here.

I wish you luck.