AIBU to say no to my teenager becoming vegan.

[Abloodybigholeintheground]

My 15 yr old daughter has messaged me about wanting to become vegan (she is currently away staying with friends for a month). She became vegetarian a few months ago and it has been extremely hard to get her to eat a decent diet as she has always been a very fussy eater with an extremely restrictive palate. When she ate meat she was just the same but we had a few meals that she loved and ate well. She has spent a lot of the past few months refusing veggie meals I have prepared as she doesn't like them, she doesn't like most veggie substitutes (sausages etc), is not a fan of any spicy food....she has been a nightmare to feed and god knows what she eats at school! Now I don't have an issue with the ethical side of things despite the fact that we live in a rural farming community and our work roles are part of the farming community. We also keep our own animal species for eggs and meat so that we can be producing high welfare local food. But I understand environmentally and ethically if she is not happy with eating animal products. However with her very picking eating, with our incredibly busy lifestyles and two other kids to feed, our limited access to shops that stock much in the range of veggie or vegan foodstuffs, the lack of vegan food at school (and packed lunches are not an option) and the fact that she doesn't ever cook and if she doesn't eat with the family she will just have a bagel or toast, AIBU to say to her that becoming a vegan at this stage is just not workable for her or for us?

I can see why you're worried. It's perfectly possible to eat a healthy vegan diet, but it requires a bit of effort. You can't just fly it by the seat of your pants. If she's barely managed a decent vegetarian diet, which is hardly the most challenging thing in the world, there's nothing to suggest she's suddenly going to step up her game if she goes vegan. It's not reasonable for you to get lumbered with all the extra work that feeding her a suitable vegan diet would involve, either. Especially as she's so fussy otherwise. I mean, not even eating spicy food- that rules out all the nicest vegan dishes!

What about if you buy her a book first and ask her to read it and come up with ideas as to how to make it work?

YANBU to put your foot down. Tell her firmly that she will not be a vegan in your house, and that any further discussion or protest will result in you no longer allowing her to be vegetarian either.

How would you feel if you were made to eat cat and dog meat, because you were in someone else's house and that's what they'd cooked for dinner?

I've recently become vegan and I'm not stopping my teenagers from eating meat as it's their choice and even though it now sickens me to even smell cooking meat I still cook it for them because I don't believe in forcing my choices onto other people even though vegan is a lot healthier that eating meat.

Further to my previous post, I suppose you could come at it from the other angle, and INSIST that if she is vegan, she is strictly vegan. So that means:

• No more lifts in your car! (Tyres contain animal by-products.)
• She can't use the bus either! (Same as above.)
• Any five pound notes (and the new tenners) she has must be given to you immediately. (Animal by-products again.)
• When she starts drinking, beer, wine and spirits are mostly non-vegan.

Other things to avoid:

• Anything silk, woollen, fur, leather.
• Pillows etc that may contain feathers.
• Most glue
• Some jewellery, eg pearls
• Toothpaste

Even bread is out, because a certain amount of "insect fragments" is permitted.

A true vegan will not use anything that is made of animals, derived from animals, harmful to animals or handled by anyone who is not also a true vegan.

When she starts dating, kissing involves the transfer of animal (human, hopefully) fluids, so she'll have to resign herself to being single her whole life!

(Of couse, most people who claim to be vegan will make exceptions to their veganism when the alternative is inconvenient for them. Oh, the hypocrisy of the holier-than-thou!)

In answer to a few questions back through the thread:

Everyone eats at the school canteen-no packed lunches (private school)
Until a few months ago daughter tucked into our home produced meats, sausages, chicken etc with much enthusiasm. She has never had a problem with us rearing our own meat.
Yes I have been to and worked in a variety of slaughterhouses and commercial farming establishments. Which is why we produce as much meat as we can so we control the welfare levels, the feed and medication (or lack of).
She showed no interest in veggie/ vegan until recently and it has come from accessing information on the internet-she has forwarded various things to me. She is however deaf to any corrections or contradictions that we, her parents who work within the farming industry, point out to her (as any teen is!!)
I agree with plenty of things that vegetarians/vegans think and say, however resent being called cruel and causing suffering to animals. I am not opposed to killing animals for food but it needs to be done in the most humane way possible with the highest level of husbandry beforehand.
Cannot stress enough how fussy an eater she is which is going to make a nutritionally balanced meal incredibly hard if not impossible...
Also I feel that is if it is necessary to have food artificially forfeited with nutrients/vitamins/minerals then it can't be the most healthy natural diet for us as humans...
Eggs -chicken periods?!? someone needs a biology lesson.
Haven't had any non vegans direct snarky comments to me.....
"Flouncing" off again for a while to ferry teenagers around and then sorting animals....no time for cooking a second tea...

I became vegetarian at the age of 14 and my mum told me to cook for myself which has left me with a lifelong love of cooking.

The only way it worked was to get a good basic cookery book - I still have my Rose Elliott - and menu plan, and I went to the supermarket each week with my parents and bought the ingredients.

I'd advise against too much online stuff because she could easily get overwhelmed with too many recipes and fancy ingredients and bad advice. Maybe the vegans on here can advise good solid cookery books she could buy that you then have to hand.

Sorry-preachy not snarky comment.

Reading with interest.

My 12 yr old has been vegetarian for 18 months now and is showing more and more interest in veganism.

I don't honestly know how I would manage that. I am a terrible cook at the best of times. He will eat almost anything so long as it's clearly vegetarian though so I'm not too worried about him atm.

(He doesn't like meat substitutes either, says he doesn't want to eat meat so why would he want to eat fake meat)

@PootlewasthebestFlump
Which Rose Elliott book do you Have? I'm always looking for good recipe books since I'm bad at vegetarian cooking.
There are loads listed on Amazon

My 30 year old one is called (ironically) The New Vegetarian Cookbook :-D

I also recommend Vegetarian Fast Food.

River Cottage Veg is excellent also.

@Abloodybigholeintheground

what does she eat? You said that she would live off of bagels & toast. MNers say those types of things & then the list of edibles magically expands after all.

What spread would she put on the bagels or toast?
Does she really eat No sweets, biscuits, pastries, fruit, veg, nuts, beans or legumes?

Given that you can't force feed her, it's not your decision to make. However, at 15, if she is serious, it's for her to learn to cook and come up with meal ideas. You can provide support, but the onus isn't on you to go out of your way.

you could come at it from the other angle, and INSIST that if she is vegan, she isstrictlyvegan. So that means...

A true vegan will not use anything that is made of animals, derived from animals, harmful to animals or handled by anyone who is not also a true vegan.

Wtf??? You're so full of shit. My vegan friends happily eat food that I (non vegan) prepare and handle.

I'm not a vegan, but your post is so full of animosity and bile. You think a teenager who is trying to do what they think is right deserves punishment and accusations of hypocrisy? Wtf? No one is perfect but thank god most people are better than you.

Are the people who say she shouldn't be 'allowed' to be vegan proposing that the op force feed her child? She's a human and is entitled to choose what she eats. She needs to take responsibility and learn to cook, but the idea that you can dictate what someone eats is horrendous.

My DP's sisters were vegan for a while. They were vegetarians in their late teens, but they weren't allowed to be vegan's until the cooked their own meals...otherwise their mum would be left trying to cook for everyone when she had no desire to cook vegan. (Although, none are vegan anymore...not even vegetarian. The most ardent of them has now done a complete 180 and spouts that veganism is classist...)

IMHO, teens can make these decisions for themselves IF they are prepared to cook it for themselves, and that the family can afford to give them the budget to do so. For some, it is a status symbol - being seen to do the thing. It's part of fitting in.

I am vegan and was vegetarian for awhile before that. I tried being vegetarian as a teen but my parents would not allow it. I think in your case I would support and allow it but only if she proved she had read up on nutrition, came up with a sensible meal plan (that dosnt contain loads if expensive and difficult to obtain ingrediants) that she can show you and starts learning to cook her own meals. Veganism can have bad effects on your health if you don't do it properly, it is not hard and the food is delicious but it takes a little while to learn what to eat, do it right and you get loads of health benefits. If she won't do this then I think she should remain vegetarian but even as a vegetarian she should start to learn to prepare and cook nutritionally balanced meals. Living on toast, chips and bagels is no good for her, neither is living on chicken nuggets, chips and beans for those eating a standard western diet. If she's doing it as a fashion thing she can just tell her friends she is doing a slow transition towards becoming vegan. My fave vegan cook book is called thug kitchen, she's bound to find something tasty and easy to make from there.

There is a joke I saw on a greeting card recently " How do you know if someone is vegan ? Don't worry they'll soon tell you" Being vegan is very, very trendy at the moment so maybe she's picked up a bit on that

That's an old one and quite offensive. My experience is that I mention it casually or simply as a question (about vegetarianism) - for example "the soup sounds lovely, may I just check that its vegetarian?"- and a meat eater will say "oh you not one of those are you?" A conversation will follow in which I'll also inevitably have to hear "if god didn't want us to eat animals he'd not have made them out of meat, hurr, hurr, hurr". My meal is likely ruined, but if I answer back I'm accused of not shutting up about my weird eating habit.

Totally agree yetanother

Meat eater criticises /takes the piss out of veggies/vegans = fine, normal conversation.

Veggie/vegan casually mentions that they won't eat the sausages = preachy, going on about it, probably a hypocrite anyway and deserves to have their choice of shoes (or any other product) interrogated.

I think most people who have posted are on the same page - I'm a carnivore but I can completely see the attraction and benefits of a vegan diet and I cannot understand the vitriol and scorn that some people have for it. The issue here is a practical one of producing additional meals and one that many people have made sensible suggestions. Only time will tell whether the OPs DD will stick with it but I wish them all luck.

Veggie/vegan casually mentions that they won't eat the sausages = preachy, going on about it, probably a hypocrite anyway and deserves to have their choice of shoes (or any other product) interrogated

Oh I hate that. Even worse when the examples are sillier, as some above are. If we then show we are as pure as possible we are seen as extreme and preachy and weird and if we don't we are accused of hypocrisy. It's so fucking boring and predictable. It's worse when they think they are smart, funny or original.

For those saying it's unreasonable to tell a 15yo what to eat - I disagree, they are still children under our care and we are responsible for ensuring a healthy diet. If that means they have to fit in with the rest of the family and family finances then that's how it has to be until they can pay for their own food and cook for themselves.

However, most parents will and should take their views into account but I do think the teen needs to contribute in the process - i.e. Research to prove why they have made the choice, meal plans, understanding of nutrients etc.

I would be concerned about a fussy eater going on a potentially restrictive diet if they weren't showing an understanding of healthy eating on that diet. Ethics are a valid reason but only part of the story.

Definitely not unreasonable not to want her to go on a vegan diet until she and you are sure she will eat well enough on it.

For those saying it's unreasonable to tell a 15yo what to eat - I disagree, they are still children under our care and we are responsible for ensuring a healthy diet.

True and it's repeatedly being shown that not eating dairy, eggs and meat is healthier than eating it. So we should be encouraging our children to eat less animal products not insisting they eat meat and dairy 3 times a day.

When I was vegan (I fell for a cheese sandwich), I ate:

B: oatcakes with peanut butter and a banana, or muesli with almond/hazelnut milk
L: Big fat salad with falafel/hummus, pesto pasta with cherry tomatoes and peppers, organic beans on toast
D: lentil or bean curry with brown rice, or veg stew, or roasted tomato pasta

Nooch (nutritional yeast) can provide her daily B12 requirements and tastes like cheese which would work on pasta.

Now I'm 90% veggie and 10% omni as I eat out a lot more and vegan dining out is pretty difficult.

You cant reasonably force feed a 15 yo.

So treat it as a fad, whether or not it is, but teenagers should be allowed to explore life, thoughts and morality. She should take more responsibility for cooking her meals but as her parent you should still support her decision, so maybe help with buying the ingredients (within reason).

Be cool about it and it will either end or she will become a good cook.

As for veganism being a joke, well who the Fcuk cares, its your DD choice.

School will provide vegan/kosher/halal/veggie/allergy options, they have to, or its discrimination. Sorted.

I would tell her yes as long as she ...

Looks up 4 proper recipes to make/eat each week

She lists all the ingredients needed for the recipes after first checking the food cupboards

She cooks 4 property meals a week.

I know you want to keep the milage down but supporting your DD and doing an online shop is more of a priority