.. To be furious at DH's ex Wife?

[SSDGM]

DH split up with the mother of his kids years before he met me. In fact he had another 10 year long relationship in between us. Now their youngest DD is 19 and in employment the time has come to sell the house (or her to buy him out) as agreed. However she's changed her mind and is pleading poverty. She's ignored solicitors letters and mediation requests or left any correspondence to the last minute and has said she's about to be out of a job due to illness. DH has had enough and has instructed solicitors that Mediation will not work and to go straight to court. She now wants him to just sign it all over to her and walk away.
I'm fuming because I have 2 now adult DS's from my first marriage and after their father and I split I made a point to ramp up my career to look after us all where she has just ignored the passing of time and can't now cope without the maintenance and tax credits she got before her DS/ my DSD was of age. I have a little nest egg put away for a house deposit and earn a decent salary. She has now said she will come after MY money and she will be given the house they shared by the courts because she's poorer than I am.
DH is self employed and earns less than I do.

AIBU to want to get involved? How dare she sit on her arse working part time for years after the kids were old enough to take care of themselves and then piss and moan it's unfair that we have a nice life and should give her everything. I've always been nice to her to keep the peace, but I'm losing patience. Why can't she just bugger off?

She's already reminded him he's liable too

Women like her will rinse a man for all they can get.....so don't make any decisions on 'handing it over' until you've had thorough legal advice.
You can guarantee she will have more tricks up her sleeve to get as much as she can from you both

She knew exactly what she was doing and how to play your dh to get away with it....after all, it was her dad who 'mis-sold' them the endowment policy....
check the details and see where your dh stands legally.
I don't know whether you can claim compensation for mis-sold endowments?
Wouldn't surprise me if she used that to her advantage soon as the property was transferred to her.

Her new dp has moved with her - with a view to letting out his own home - so she has someone else to look after her.
She also has someone else paying all/half the bills so her case for going after your money is even weaker
She CHOSE not to prioritise employment/future security.....because she knows she can screw others into funding her lifestyle

despite how easy/cheap your dh has made it for her, she has the nerve to go after more! i wouldn't let her get away with it.

Yes, well, ranting is all very well, but the OP is in this difficult legal position due to her decision as an adult to marry another sentient adult, and neither sorted out their existing & subsequent financial positions prior to this happy day.

This would be risky so I wouldn't do it without legal advice as if I have no ideas on the logistics, but, what if your oh bought out her and took ownership of the house?

If she is about to lose her job then being offered a lump sum of money could be quite attractive. As it is, it sounds as if there is about £40-50k equity so a fair amount to split but reasonable amount to mortgage (35k endowment mortgage and 10k loan on 90k value)

Obviously the risk is she doesn't then move out (hence looking at legalities and covering yourself) but with some safeguards in place it may be possible

If that worked out, you have a house to sort out and resell yourselves over time.

Indeed, Liney. Why would nayone do that? I would not marry a man until he had a final financial settlement sorted out and approved by the court. I suppose at least other readers on here will now see that this is something they need their boyfriend (and themselves) to sort out before they get married.

If thre is only £40k of equity then that will all go on legal fees (and there is no legal aid in most divorces now) so they are better off trying to negotiate although it looksl ike she already rejected a reasonable offer earlier on - I cannot remember the figure but it meant she would get more than half and she did not accept it so they may jsut have to push it to a hearingif she won't produce any kind of offer at all on her side to negotiate from.

I doubt the ex wifes own dad purposely mis sold them an endowment policy .

Oh for heaven's sake!

Stop saying £4K isn't much money - it's not about £4K, it's about him getting off the mortgage which can only happen if she can take it over (v v v unlikely it sounds) or the place is sold and he can cover the full shortfall - because he'll be liable for the full amount jointly, and she won't pay it, possibly.

But... why on earth did you marry a man who hadn't sorted this out? You didn't have to marry. You knew it was outstanding.

I would love to hear the other side about the "bellend" who left her. I'm just going to throw out a guess that he wasn't exactly 50:50 carer, huh?

The XW may be a bitch.
She may be a woman with MH problems (actually she sounds like it) who is scared of losing her home and stalling.
She could be both of course.

But the time to sort this out was when they split up - you are in this position from his stupidity as much as her stalling, be that from desperation or full Machiavellian plotting

It is ridiculous that OP is saying that XW can always go live in her boyfriend's house.

Shall we take a moment to imagine that post from XW in Relationships?

Come on, you know the reply - do not leave a secure home when you are low income and unwell, for someone who is just a boyfriend.

You can simply be sensible without being being a grand schemer.

It would do my head in OP, really it would. But it's my husband in your case that would have me tearing my hair out!

And btw I'm a single mother who managed the financial settlement herself in divorce and successfully tied up all loose ends. That you did too is totally irrelevant.

Perhaps we weren't blindsided by being dumped and left with young children by a bellend and had the mental capacity to cope?

Perhaps we weren't hurt so badly we never felt vengeful?

Perhaps we were simply a bit smarter, or a bit more confident with legal terms, a bit more willing to let go...

Crazy cat lady doesn't sound like she planned all this so much as ran from it. Which he also did, in his own way. Two ostriches in a bucket of fucked up sand.

In his place, I'd recognise that she was in a vulnerable position and also that she doesn't have any hope of getting a remortgage, that an order to force a sale would be long and costly and that he could lose more to her (pension) because he stuck his head in the sand JUST LIKE HER.

I would find out exactly what the endowment is worth (stock market has been rising for 2 years remember) and how much is owing on the mortgage. It's all in joint names, he doesn't need her for that.
Then I'd look at the possibility to pay the mortgage off, retaining a charge over the property in return for doing so. Repayable on marriage, death, whatever... That leaves him clear to get a mortgage with you.

If he has no capital I'd look at him remortgaging (after cashing in endowment, if it has no bonuses to come) because rates are low and can be fixed, and the LTV will be excellent. There is a possibility that he can have two mortgages if his income is sufficient.

But really - stop bitching about her. Even if she's totally astute, a bitch and cackling to her cats... he put himself in this position!

I have a terrible feeling that this will happen to my DB when his youngest is 18...that's just 3 year away.

I'm not surprised you're furious. Why does one woman think that she has the right to your money.

This is one of the reasons why many men don't want to get married any more.

I think he should go for 50%, if that's what he's entitled to.

Sandy she doesn't necessarily think she's (morally) entitled to OP's money at all. But she may understand that's she's legally entitled to have his household income considered in an assessment of his financial needs when they separate. She's not wrong to use the law, and she's not wrong to consider using any bargaining chip.

I was legally entitled to have my XH's business value considered in our settlement. I didn't feel morally entitled. But I sure as hell said "if you piss me about over the proposal that is already massively in your favour, then please bear in mind that I'm excluding half a million of property that I could go after a share of - so please play as fair as I am".

Way I see it, she could be doing the same.

He turns up saying "I'm entitled to 50% but I'll take 25%". She hasn't got the 25% to buy him out anyway. So her best move is to say "you won't get 25% and by the way your wife's money is now a factor". None of that means she actually feels entitled to the wife's money!

I'm at you thinking she was unreasonable for "sacking" a solicitor who said (according to you) that he was entitled to 50%. Did the solicitor really say "entitled"?

I'd sack that solicitor too!

You start with a premise of 50% because they jointly own the property, the mortgage and endowment are joint, and they were married.
So far so good. As a start point.

I'm guessing that the mortgage runs 1994 to 2019, because OP says mid 90s sale and 2 years until endowment date.

The £10K secured loan is most likely a red herring. Even if she did spend it on something over than they agreed. A secured loan is separate to the mortgage. She has been paying it back herself - surely? - otherwise he'd long since have been aware of the default! As it was 10 years ago, chances are it is even paid off.

Onto the mortgage.

Sounds like in 23 years of a 25 year mortgage, they have paid 8 years together and she has paid 14 years alone. Let's say 18 years to his 4. (splitting the 8 years between them.

OK, he paid the deposit but you could argue that was an asset of the marriage anyway and long since offset by childcare. Even if you say it's all his - £4K, it was about 10% - it's not a massive deposit.

Then there's the endowment. If it's only £3K short, sounds like she continued to pay that as well as the IO part of the mortgage.

If I walked into a solicitor and said I'd paid 18 years of a 25 year mortgage and him 4, and my solicitor said "oh then he gets 50%" I'd walk straight out and find one who said "right, we're miles away from the 50/50 start point already".

Even 25% is a gambit on his part! Sounds like she's paid 80% of the mortgage and endowment!

I'm really not seeing money grabbing bitch here!

As an aside: I really do not understand why the law isn't changed to refuse a decree absolute until a Consent Order is in place.

Good post Ellisandra. Agree with every word.

Thanks happy!
I'm dismayed at how quick people are to blame this woman.

She was a fool not to face the divorce and get this all locked down of course... but that's just the same as Mr Ostrich, so I can't demonise her for it.

Yeah, she's worked part time - how many other women on here do because of the cost of childcare and impact to benefits? I don't like a system that pays similar for part time + benefits, but I'm not going to criticise anyone for taking advantage of that.

From the description, I don't think she's my kind of person - crazy cat ladies aren't my thing! Doesn't sound like she's been great at supporting her daughter through the offer of tutoring, turning that down. And her ignoring letters would do my head in! But I'll say it again - they're a match made in heaven for burying their heads, aren't they?

I would love to hear the other side in this.

OP only has the word of the "bellend" on the 9 year old agreement too. I'll take that with a pinch of salt.

So tempting to wonder whether his private maintenance agreement was a good deal for her too. We all know the CSA/CMS calculation doesn't always reflect the cost of raising a child. No axe to grind - I voluntarily don't claim £400 a month! My XH still slated me to his GF that he had to pay because of the divorce

If he's been paying something like the minimum all these years, his XW has probably missed out LOADS. Potentially a larger share of the house, him paying some mortgage AND maintenance, a pension sharing order.

Easy to paint it that he did rather well by stalling.

One thing I am certain about - if I were the OP I wouldn't be rushing to join finances with a man who needs to ask his XW for a joint mortgage/endowment statement instead of annually having his own copies.

Reading Ellisandra's posts is turning me into one of those nodding dogs....

With that small amount of money, I'd just let it go for the sake of an easier life.

I love your username, SSDGM. I almost got it on a vanity plate when I got my new car.

Just to be on the safe side, could you not "gift" your savings to your sons? Temporarily.

Your ex paid the mortgage alone for 15 years. If she went to court she'd definitely win or win enough to make your dh's move to court pointless& then you would either have to dip into your nest egg to pay legal fees or make him do it. Either way you can't get your house.

I'd be livid too, you've put your lie on hold whilst she lived in the 'family' home. She's had plenty of time to get ready for this.

I'd push for more, if he wants to he could gift the extra to his kids.

you've put your lie on hold whilst she lived in the 'family' home.

Well really, it's the husband and the ex wife who have had things on hold for far too long, as Ellisandra so eloquently explained.

Great post Ellsandra broke it all down very well.

Nail on the head Ellisandra.

notapizzaeater op has hardly put her life on hold. They've only been married two minutes! The dh is the one that's let this drag on for 14 years.

I presume the ex wife has the house as a result of some sort of court order put in place after they split? Does your DH have a mesher order whereby he is entitled to his interest when the youngest child reaches 18 or leaves full time education? If so it is a matter of enforcement. He will need an order for sale but should get it. The oldest child is working and therefore presumably not a dependent (unless it's an apprenticeship). Does the ex have a spousal maintenance claim that is open? Even if nominal it could be varied.

Ellisandra 👏👏😍

There's nothing open. Their eldest is 28 married with 2 kids and is a SAHM. The youngest is 19 and working.
We don't care about the money. He's willing to lose the lot. The whole point is she will not acknowledge that the only way to sort this out is for her to get a mortgage in her own name (supposedly can't happen because of her lack of income) or to sell the house so his name is off the mortgage and my husband and I can get our own house.

I don't know the full reason that they split. They got together as teens, had a baby and spent years on and off until they married and had their youngest daughter and it didn't work out. He left and took an active part in the kids lives as they grew up. His house where he lived with the woman he was with before me was walking distance from his exW house.

I understand she wants to hold on to the house but there are ways to go about these things and she's not making it easy on anyone by continuing to bury her head in the sand. Why would she not want to move on? What's the point? She agreed back when he had to get the divorce that the house would be settled when the girls grew up and suddenly that's off the table because she doesn't fancy dealing with it.

For those saying we should have sorted it out before we married, we did try to. She dragged out even getting a solicitor for 6 months after we first saw one and by then all the arrangements were made. If my wedding had been postponed due to this I definitely would not have bitten my tongue for as long as I have.

Why would she not to move on?

Maybe because she has secure housing in a house that has been mostly paid for by her, and you're proposing that she buy him out (which she may not be able to - either getting the mortgage or servicing it) or sell up and (if she can't a mortgage) move from said secure housing into insecure private that will soon eat up the equity she has made.

She should of course get her head out of the sand and get a good solicitor to go for as much as possible - which sounds like it might be fair given she paid for most of it. But even if she gets 100% of the equity, if she can't get a mortgage, she can't.

How do you know she hasn't seen a broker, or done an online affordability calculation and found that she can't?

As I said - I'd be tearing my hair out at the ostrich impersonations. But no more so than I would with your husband.

Why on earth does he have to ask her for mortgage/endowment statements for his own account?! Why doesn't he know this stuff?

She dragged out even getting a solicitor for 6 months after we first saw one and by then all the arrangements were made

So you knew this was a financial shambles-in-waiting, and still pursued wedding arrangements and got married?

It's like an ostrich convention.