To be sick and tired of women's concerns being silenced?

[MerchantofVenice]

Obviously I wouldn't dream of doing a TAAT.

But is anyone else as furious as I am that every time people try to raise legitimate concerns about the legislation about self-identity and transgender people, the whole discussion is shut down?

There's this undertone of 'Oh, you can't say that!!!' when people state scientific facts.

And at the same time, there's this myth that 'MN is one of the only places you can actually discuss the transgender debate openly.' Like fuck it is.

Your average person on the street isn't intimately acquainted with the madness of the debate and will have no qualms about stating facts. You see it on the comments after those nonsense news articles ("Man gives birth"). When you explain the situation to novices (as I did to my husband) they are gobsmacked. They had no idea that it was somehow a hate crime to be literate in biology.

And that's part of the problem; this hushing up colludes with the idea that people are saying something controversial. The debate stays secret and the tide of common sense never comes.

So sick of it.

gotspoiler I do not think the word feminism means what you think it means, with apologies to The Princess Bride.

Why give men the legal right to be in womens spaces? Make a third gender neutral space.

Dont complain about nasty language and exluding you, then complain we wont stand up for ourselves.

Wow, Nazi comparisons already?

The statistics are in the public domain - the home office and prison service publish them. Of the people incarcerated in the UK for violent crimes, 90% are male. Of the people incarcerated in the UK for sexual crimes, 98% are male. Yes, "women do it too", but not in the same numbers as men. To pretend that they do is to misrepresent the actual facts of the situation, facts which are clearly and unequivocally in the public domain from neutral sources, not rad fem blogs (unless you want to class the Home Office and prison service under the heading "rad fem blogs" which seems a bit of a stretch).

Besides given the sheer amount of threads on here, I'd suggest women's concerns are anything but silenced

dolce - there are links in the blog to a range of studies. I'm sure you're clever enough to be able to follow them

Exactly Rod

Unless it's other women here doing the censorship but that'll just be blamed on 'toxic masculinity' and 'patriarchy'

With regard to full contact sport like womens rugby surely a mtf will be significantly strong enough to cause severe injury.

got, 98% of sexual violence is committed by males. If society wants to tackle the problem which sex should they focus on?

We're against biological males having access to women only spaces because of cases like this

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/sex-swap-prisoner-sparks-revolt-7666459

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/sex-gender-change-pomont-9141800

This 'female' has been moved twice for the same problem; 'having sex' (or possibly raping women trapped in prison with 'her')

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/transgender-murderer-moved-womens-prison-9770465 2017

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2525441/Transgender-murderer-Paris-Green-moved-womens-prison-sex-inmates.html 2013

And this horror www.lifesitenews.com/news/sexual-predator-jailed-after-claiming-to-be-transgender-in-order-to-assault

lovindubai.com/abu-dhabi/video-of-man-dressed-as-a-woman-to-murder-a-young-boy-has-been-released

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1537414/Murder-suspect-fled-under-Muslim-veil.html

The disingenous argument that 'all self declared MtF transgenders must be treated as female and have access to all women only spaces, what's the problem, you TERFs bigots' fails to recognise or address the piss takers and the sex offenders who want unfettered access to women and children.

To the majority of the population, there is no difference between a pre-op trans woman, a transvestite and men who have used disguises as females to commit crime or evade capture.

Yes, there are tragic cases where transgender prisoners have been raped and/or killed themselves behind bars.

However, a number of violent male prisoners have self identified as trans either as a ploy to avoid intimate searches, to try to gain access to female prisons or to create further problems for the prison services.

Until the trans lobby sorts out those with an MRA agenda, those who are happy to exploit the access to women only spaces for their own selfish desires or to simply take the piss, then no.

Any man can self identify as a woman, without trying to live as a woman, dress as a woman or be identified as a transgender by doctors, psychiatrists or psychologists.

As long as that is the case, biologically male 'women' can go in individual changing rooms, aren't welcome in women only toilets and can be held in isolation in prison.

Those of you who dont care, use the gender neutral space. How hard is that?

Tell us precisely where we can find them?

I agree about debate being shut down by the virtue signallers.

The problem is that if you shut down debate on sensitive issues, you also shut down scientific research.

Yesterday my son was an athletics meet and my husband commented today on how many mixed race kids there were at the event. I said "that's good, the more mixed race kids the better as we need them for our future Olympic teams". Look at our medalists from this year's world athletics championships (and some of the near misses, like Morgan Lake, KJT - and previous winners like Jess Ennis) - so many are mixed race.

But you are not allowed to say that mixed race athletes may be better than "single" race ones. If you do, you're being racist. You can't say someone is better at something because of their race, because of course that means they may be worse at something, too. And that's racist and not allowed. Same goes for those who try to bring up their kids gender-neutral, the rest of us are being sexist because we accept that there may be some differences between men and women. And those of us who would prefer people with penises to use male or unisex, not ladies, toilets are transphobic.

It would be good if there were more open debate, and less virtue signalling.

I'm Intersex (I have the complete form of Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome). I don't agree that the existence of Intersex people has anything to do with the transgender movement - however, I also get frustrated that we are repeatedly referred to as extremely rare. Most thorough evidence of all Intersex conditions (not just ambiguous genitalia), would suggest that we make up 1-2% of the population, which is about the same as people with red hair.

Ceto et al
Make the gender neutral spaces, like women had to make women only spaces.
Stop invading women only spaces, and stop ignoring the reasons we need them.

"Female to female violence is significantly reduced"

Can you explain that? How does having a female space mean that females are less likely to attack other females? Is there more attacks of females on females in neutral spaces?

Men are mre violent than women. Thats a fact Cat. They are more violent to each other and towards women much much more than women to women or women to men are.

Catandtwodogs. I have no interest in sports either, but it's extremely popular and it's the reason some people get up in the morning.

Lumping all athletes together is deeply unfair.

Justin Gatlin, a known drugs cheat, beat Usain Bolt and was booed by the crowd.

Any unfair advantage is not something to be completely ignored.

But how is female to female violence reduced by having female only spaces?

Female violence isn't a problem. Male violence is the problem, that's what we should focus on, the problem.

The problem with the "making female spaces less safe for females" argument is that no-one proposing it seems to have any interest in making women in such spaces safer from attack by other women. Where, for instance, are the campaigns against allowing women with records of violence into such spaces?

I agree that the way that women's rights are looking at the moment, my DD will have fewer rights than me.
Trans folk are more than welcome to fight for equality, just as women have and do. But they cannot take my rights away. I do not want to share a public bathroom or changing room with a non female, I do not want my DD to use a facility and then tell me about the man in there, nor have her measured up for a bra by a man.
Not because I am afraid, but because I am a female by birth, and as such i have been socialised to be very aware of men's behaviour, most men are lovely, but I have never been groped, whistled at, raped or even spoken down to by another woman. Men, however......

Sounds to me like you want special treatment for women. Kind of sexist to assume these silly womenz can't stand up for themselves. What happened to feminism eh?

I absolutly cannot stand up to a man. I could not fight off the man that raped me. Am I a silly womenz because of that got ?

Femminisim and equality are not about being treated the same it is about being treated equally. If wanting to be safe from rape in a place whete i am vulnerable then yes I want special treatment.

But that's not what Cosmic said. Cosmic said by what I'm reading that female to female violence was reduced.

Reduced because of what?

Reduced by having separate spaces? Why?

Car accidents were reduced as a statement doesn't make sense unless you refer it to something - car accidents were reduced by the introduction of traffic lights at the junction.

That makes sense. Car accidents were reduced as a statement without context doesn't.

That's what I'm struggling to understand about "female to female violence is reduced" as a result of what?

Cat, why are you focused on female violence?

Male violence is the big problem, , maybe focus on that.

But how is female to female violence reduced by having female only spaces?

It isnt but it happens a lot less than male to female violence so is it not better to reduce the more frequent crime than the infrequent one?