To be sick and tired of women's concerns being silenced?

[MerchantofVenice]

Obviously I wouldn't dream of doing a TAAT.

But is anyone else as furious as I am that every time people try to raise legitimate concerns about the legislation about self-identity and transgender people, the whole discussion is shut down?

There's this undertone of 'Oh, you can't say that!!!' when people state scientific facts.

And at the same time, there's this myth that 'MN is one of the only places you can actually discuss the transgender debate openly.' Like fuck it is.

Your average person on the street isn't intimately acquainted with the madness of the debate and will have no qualms about stating facts. You see it on the comments after those nonsense news articles ("Man gives birth"). When you explain the situation to novices (as I did to my husband) they are gobsmacked. They had no idea that it was somehow a hate crime to be literate in biology.

And that's part of the problem; this hushing up colludes with the idea that people are saying something controversial. The debate stays secret and the tide of common sense never comes.

So sick of it.

I do understand it got and I support transpeople just living their lives.
However when they demand my support to make female spaces less safe for females and they demand that the word woman is no longer recognised as born female then they lose my support.

Cosmic what do you mean less safe? That an mtf will assault you? This is really no different to saying 'all men are rapists'

So far it's going well for me.

I don't make sweeping generalisations and base my views on my actual lived experience.

Yeah, so far it's going great for me.

If women's sports matter so little, why don't transwomen continue to play men's sports? I mean, if that's the only sort of sport that matters, why would you bother to colonise an inferior imitation of the real thing? Not quite sure I'm following you here, Cat.

My MTF friend would no more dream of assaulting anyone than I would

Don't bring facts and logic to a MN thread. It doesn't fit the narrative

What facts and logic is that then got?

My DP, father,brother or son would never dream of assulting anyone. Does that mean men don't just because the men I know are not violent?

dolce gendertrender.wordpress.com/2015/04/07/statistics-show-the-difference-in-rates-of-violent-crimes-against-women-committed-by-transwomen-versus-non-transgender-males/

The issue now of course is that it's virtually impossible to track offending rates of transwomen because they're recorded as crimes committed by women.

In the last few months alone, Lauren Jeska, Davina Ayrton, and Lisa Hauxwell have been convicted of attempted murder and rape. All recorded as committed by women.

Prickly basically I don't think there should be men's or women's sport. There should just be sport.

(Actually don't see the need for any sport at all but since there appears to be going to be sport)

Cosmic what do you mean less safe? That an mtf will assault you? This is really no different to saying 'all men are rapists'

Of course not all men a rapists. But all rapists are men. That is a fact.

To allow born males in to female spaces allows ALL MALES in. There is no buffer no sex segregated rule anymore which will then allow men who want to attack women in to that space legally. This reduces the sex segreated protection women used to have. Thats when it becomes less safe.

Cosmic you can say the same about women. They are also violent and commit sex crimes

Jiggly, someone's blog supporting radical feminism is hardly likely to be an unbiased source of that information, is it? Sorry, I'm not buying it.

To allow born males in to female spaces allows ALL MALES in. There is no buffer no sex segregated rule anymore which will then allow men who want to attack women in to that space legally. This reduces the sex segreated protection women used to have. Thats when it becomes less safe

If said mtf is fully transitioned, that being has a vagina, how is said mtf a threat? She doesn't have a penis. Sure she could grab you and such but other women can do that

Still missing the point that genuine MTF trans people aren't the real potential issue. The real potential issue are the men who decide they can self-identify as a woman to gain access to women only spaces specifically to attack women, or to get off on seeing naked women.

This does not generally include actual, genuine, MTF trans.

dolce that's still 100% more evidence than you have provided.

Cosmic you can say the same about women. They are also violent and commit sex crimes

They do however at a ratio that is much much less than male to female violence. So the risk of female to female violence is significantly reduced. Allowing males in to that space will significantly increase violence against women.
Why would you want or support more violence towards females got?

If those men want to go into what is now a traditionally female space they will don a dress and do it anyway.

That issue isn't a trans issue. That issue is a violent attacker issue.

Thumb you can easily switch it round though. FTM trans people could go to male changing rooms and assault them as could women who identify as men

gotspoiler the rate of violent and sex crimes committed by women is miniscule in comparison to men so it's disingenuous to attempt to conflate the two.

That's not "evidence". That's a biased agenda from a radical feminist blog.

Still, if this is the kind of "evidence" people are basing their ungrounded fears on, it explains an awful lot. Question being why they're swayed by such biased reporting in the first place, aside from confirmation bias, obviously.

The vaste majorité of MTT do not have 'bottom' surgery.

Cosmic your statement

"Female to female violence is significantly reduced"

Can you explain that? How does having a female space mean that females are less likely to attack other females? Is there more attacks of females on females in neutral spaces?

I'm sure that's not what you mean and I must be reading you incorrectly

If said mtf is fully transitioned, that being has a vagina, how is said mtf a threat? She doesn't have a penis. Sure she could grab you and such but other women can do that

Removing your penis does not make you female.
Males can and do abuse women without using their penis. Men are much more violent than women.

I'm not sure your argument is going as well for you as you think it is. I would imagine any waverer on this thread who has a daughter who's into sport may well have just been "peak transed."

FWIW, I am fully in support of trans people living and presenting any way they choose. I want trans people to be able to live free from harrassment and the threat of violence, and get on with their lives with equal access to employment and housing and services. I just think there are a few places - women's refuges, prisons, rape crisis centres, sports - where actual real-world biology trumps internal feelings.

gotspoiler the rate of violent and sex crimes committed by women is miniscule in comparison to men so it's disingenuous to attempt to conflate the two

Sounds to me like you want special treatment for women. Kind of sexist to assume these silly womenz can't stand up for themselves. What happened to feminism eh?

dolce that's still 100% more evidence than you have provided

Producing a copy of mein kampf is also not evidence to show there's a Jewish conspiracy...