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AIBU?

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Original poster

To be sick and tired of women's concerns being silenced?

703 replies

MerchantofVenice · 20/08/2017 09:40

Obviously I wouldn't dream of doing a TAAT.

But is anyone else as furious as I am that every time people try to raise legitimate concerns about the legislation about self-identity and transgender people, the whole discussion is shut down?

There's this undertone of 'Oh, you can't say that!!!' when people state scientific facts.

And at the same time, there's this myth that 'MN is one of the only places you can actually discuss the transgender debate openly.' Like fuck it is.

Your average person on the street isn't intimately acquainted with the madness of the debate and will have no qualms about stating facts. You see it on the comments after those nonsense news articles ("Man gives birth"). When you explain the situation to novices (as I did to my husband) they are gobsmacked. They had no idea that it was somehow a hate crime to be literate in biology.

And that's part of the problem; this hushing up colludes with the idea that people are saying something controversial. The debate stays secret and the tide of common sense never comes.

So sick of it.

OP posts:
Puffpaw · 20/08/2017 17:19

Also I called cat self centred before they disclosed their assault. They are self centred, they only care about the things that matter to them.

dolcezza99 · 20/08/2017 17:24

Showandtell, that's the standard radical feminist response to a differring opinion, isn't it? "Must be a bloke". That negates your entire argument. That you can't bear or imagine that a woman actually doesn't subscribe to this radical feminist claptrap is just beyond your small, narrow mind, isn't it?

dolcezza99 · 20/08/2017 17:27

Also I called cat self centred before they disclosed their assault. They are self centred, they only care about the things that matter to them.

Much like you radical feminists who only care about your own point of view, you mean?

Showandtell · 20/08/2017 17:30

Actual lolz at 'radical feminist claptrap'

Showandtell · 20/08/2017 17:30

It's like having a conversation with my 80 year old father in law GrinGrin

Showandtell · 20/08/2017 17:31

It's like having a conversation with my 80 year old father in law GrinGrin

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 20/08/2017 17:31

Much like you radical feminists who only care about your own point of view, you mean?

I am not a radical feminist. I don't even call myself a feminist. Cat was called self centred because of the frequent posts about "not caring"/ "having zero interest" as if that was more important than any other opinion.

GetAHaircutCarl · 20/08/2017 17:33

I don't see female spaces as having anything to do with opinion.

They are a matter of fact and of right.

Females, have the right to be in changing rooms without anyone with a penis.

My ten year old niece has a right to undress knowing no one on there has a penis. My ten year old niece has the right to be in there without seeing a penis.

In any other situation this would be a matter of child protection. No question.

SmileEachDay · 20/08/2017 17:34

What is "radical feminist claptrap"? Can you exemplify please?

IAmEatingACurry · 20/08/2017 17:35

Nobody on here thinks transwomen are a threat. I have been posting on these threads since February and lurking for even longer than that and whilst I have seen posts claiming that people on here have said transwomen are a threat, all sexual predators, are a risk, etc, I am yet to actually see anyone say that's what we are. Believe me, if I had seen anyone say that we are all a threat and perverts then I would have definitely had something to say to them. Saying that abusive men who aren't trans may use self identification to their advantage is not the same thing as saying transwomen are all perverts and sexual predators just waiting to pounce on women but people seem to think they mean the same thing. Bizarre.

You can't get upset about women objecting to sharing their personal and intimate spaces with men because they are concerned about their personal safety whilst also holding the view that transwomen should be allowed into women's spaces because they are at risk of being assaulted by men in the men's facilities. Well I suppose you could but it's a bit silly and doesn't make any sense. Either you accept that men are a risk or they aren't but you can't have one rule for one group of people and a completely different one for another.

Transwomen are not women. We're transwomen. Claiming that there is no difference between transwomen and women and wanting to get rid of the 'trans' is the real transphobia here. It's basically saying that there is something wrong with being trans and we need to be someone else in order to be accepted, allowed rights and be treated with dignity and respect. It's erasure, essentially and that is wrong.

Let's just think about this for a second. If transwomen are women and transmen are men then we wouldn't be even sitting here having this debate right now. There would be no threads here at all on this or any need for any discussion or debate about this anywhere because transmen would simply exist as men and transwomen would simply exist as women. The fact that we are even here discussing this in the first place and the fact that trans people are at risk of violence, assault and discrimination because we are trans proves that we are not the same.

Comparing being trans to being gay is ridiculous. Being gay changes nothing physically about you. Being gay doesn't involve taking a lifetime of hormones or having surgery. Being gay doesn't impact anyone else. Gender identity however can and does impact other people.

What do people think they're achieving by shouting "transphobia!" every time someone disagrees with them? Who do you think you're helping? It's certainly not the people you think they're helping.

SmileEachDay · 20/08/2017 17:37

Ah Curry

You are, as ever, most reasonable and articulate.

CosmicPineapple · 20/08/2017 17:37

dolce

In all fairness Cat did not think womens sport mattered because she had no interest in it. Therefore the fact that it mattered to others was pointless/non issue/didnt matter. Thats what she was called out for. Her "I dont care about it so why the fuck do you attitude" is closed minded and ignorant.

Third world poverty does not affect me.
FGM does not affect me.
Honour killings do not affect me.
But I care that they affect others. It matters.

Showandtell · 20/08/2017 17:39

pours Curry a large glass of wine

CosmicPineapple · 20/08/2017 17:40

I wish more people would read what you post Curry
You provide logic, science and experience to your debate. I try but I lack in some areas.

IAmEatingACurry · 20/08/2017 17:40

You can't expect people to care about you, your needs and your experiences if you admit that you don't care about other people's either. It's hypocritical and just flat out makes no sense.

If you don't care about sport or sex segregated places then that's fine. However please do not tell other people that they are wrong for caring about these things especially when you're getting upset at them because you feel like they don't care about your views or what you've been through.

ShoesHaveSouls · 20/08/2017 17:41

MN hit the news recently for it's robust discussions on trans-activism. I suppose we shouldn't be surprised if a few sign up.

I had my 'peak trans' moment at least a couple of years ago - due to a MN thread. And it was mainly due being called a bigot because I wouldn't consider sleeping with a transman. And lesbians being called bigots and transphobic for sleeping with transwomen with penises.

Nobody has the right to erase people's own boundaries like that - whether they're straight, gay, or queen of the universe.

SmileEachDay · 20/08/2017 17:42

I think @datun and @Iameatingacurry should be put in charge.

IAmEatingACurry · 20/08/2017 17:47

You also can't express concern about the safety of transwomen in men's toilets whilst also being in favour of anyone being able to decide their gender and being able to use the toilets which match their chosen gender.

I don't use women's toilets but if I did I wouldn't want those violent men who assault us being able to use them.

IAmEatingACurry · 20/08/2017 17:50

I wish more people would read what you post Curry

I think people do read my posts...I just seem to scare them off Grin

Puffpaw · 20/08/2017 17:51

I've never been called a radfem before. Do I get a badge?
Curry thank you for your sensible and insightful post.

QuentinSummers · 20/08/2017 17:52

This has turned into a TRA bingo thread:

  1. derailing valid concerns about women's only space into huge strawmen about being raped in women's toilets by a sexual predator
  2. casual lesbophobia implying lesbians are as motivated by voyeurism as makes despite no evidence what so ever of this
  3. shouting transphobe/vile
  4. misogyny like calling women "silly"

It's so boring.
Thanks for your great post curry I expect this thread will die a death as a result.

QuentinSummers · 20/08/2017 17:53

Because your post is inarguable and you are trans so can't be told you don't get it I mean Grin

SunshineAndSmile · 20/08/2017 17:53

*Females, have the right to be in changing rooms without anyone with a penis.

My ten year old niece has a right to undress knowing no one on there has a penis. My ten year old niece has the right to be in there without seeing a penis.

In any other situation this would be a matter of child protection. No question.*

^

This

CosmicPineapple · 20/08/2017 17:54

I think people do read my posts...I just seem to scare them off grin

Ya big meanie Grin

Or maybe the logic and experience you provide means thay cannot go to the default setting of calling you a transphobe/bigot/terf.

Original poster
MerchantofVenice · 20/08/2017 17:57

Apologies to all the valiant posters who have been holding the fort all day on this thread. I will read through but haven't had a chance yet.

Thank you for your responses.

OP posts:
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