To be sick and tired of women's concerns being silenced?

[MerchantofVenice]

Obviously I wouldn't dream of doing a TAAT.

But is anyone else as furious as I am that every time people try to raise legitimate concerns about the legislation about self-identity and transgender people, the whole discussion is shut down?

There's this undertone of 'Oh, you can't say that!!!' when people state scientific facts.

And at the same time, there's this myth that 'MN is one of the only places you can actually discuss the transgender debate openly.' Like fuck it is.

Your average person on the street isn't intimately acquainted with the madness of the debate and will have no qualms about stating facts. You see it on the comments after those nonsense news articles ("Man gives birth"). When you explain the situation to novices (as I did to my husband) they are gobsmacked. They had no idea that it was somehow a hate crime to be literate in biology.

And that's part of the problem; this hushing up colludes with the idea that people are saying something controversial. The debate stays secret and the tide of common sense never comes.

So sick of it.

Catandtwodogs
You asked what difference gender self ID would make and I just gave a list, could you comment on that?

I can't do imaginative leaps. My brain doesn't work like that.

Cat, it's your job to protect your daughters rights, the new changes will diminish them. Have a care before you give away rights that women fought hard for. Think about your daughters future.

DJ baggy I thought I did answer?

I am trying to keep up with the thread but my Internet is slow and I'm typing in my phone

Catandtwodogs

Why would you care if they were qualified and able to support you? Genuine question - I don't care what gender or sex my counsellor is so I don't understand

I don't understand group therapy either. I don't think it's useful

Do you ever think that not every one is like you? Or that not everyone has the same interests, wants and needs as you?

On one to 1:1 counselling can you really not understand that a girl or woman who has been sexually abused or raped by a man
( or if you prefer this description - by a person who has a penis) would prefer to discuss this with a biological woman?

Lass. I have already explained. No. I can't think like that.

Did you not read where I said that?

Well thankfully you dont make the rules, as empathy is such a reach for you. Your comments have been helpful in as much as they prove the point OP was trying to make.

What's your view on lesbians in changing rooms, RogueBiscuit ?

I think any lesbians that have a penis shouldn't be in women's spaces. What's your view on male sex offenders in women's prisons?

Cat, what's your opinion on Danielle muscato who, afaik, is still taking up a space in a women's refuge?

My brain doesn't work like other people's sometimes. I do know that. I try as hard as I can but it just doesn't.

I do not understand the issue. There are other ways around the problem. And the problem is here already. There is nothing to stop men going to female toilets already and nothing to stop women assaulting other women. Toilets are not safe spaces as it is.

My children disagree with me all the time. What has that got to do with anything ?

It's not just womens concerns. Free speech in generally is being crushed by both the extreme right (neo-Nazis etc) and by the extreme left (Antifa etc). We are literally going backwards. Orwell was prophetic about all this.

I can't do imaginative leaps. My brain doesn't work like that.

Ok. Well if that's the case I'm going to bow out of engaging with you.

I'm thankful you aren't in charge.

I think any lesbians that have a penis shouldn't be in women's spaces. What's your view on male sex offenders in women's prisons?

@RogueBiscuit - That's a completely different question.

You stated that you didn't want to be "looked at" by a male in a woman's changing room.

What about lesbians? Or even straight women, who might look at you? Or do you only not want to be "looked at" by someone with a penis?

If so, why?

What's the difference, if this is about "looking", and not "attacking" ?

My aforementioned relative would not have been entitled to attend her specialist residential unit for girls with PTSD. She might have been forced to attend a unit or even share a room or a ward with a teenage boy who said he identified as a girl. But that wouldn't be a problem for a young girl getting over a traumatic rape as, from what I can see from this thread, (a) such concerns are "hysterical" and (b) the MTF transsexuals known to the posters on this thread are nice.

Cat, this isn't just about women and girls retaining the right to privacy, this has far reaching consequences.

I have HFA.

Shouod I have disclosed that in order for my view to be considered? Genuine question

Lass. I have already explained. No. I can't think like that

Did you not read where I said that?

Oh fgs I was typing my post when you posted yours, so no I didn't. Not everything is about you.

I have daughters. What's your point damn?
Imagine that one of your daughters needed to access a shelter for rape victims or imagine that one of your daughters was in prison. Do you think she would be happy to share a room or a cell with a person , no matter what that person called themselves, who has a penis? Although I expect given you say you lack imagination and presumably empathy , this example won't work either.

I have mental health difficulties directly as a result of the assault I suffered.

I shall bow out as my experience and solutions is not welcome here.

Cat so do I. However I figured out years ago that different people have different opinions to me, and as frustrating as I find that, it is something I need to be aware of.

Equality law currently offers protection for both gender and sex characteristics. The term 'gender' includes those with a GRC or those 'in the process of'. Most of us would understand the latter condition to be someone who is moving towards a different gender identity in how they present etc, but there is no legal requirement for this (and even less so if 'self-cert' happens). Essentially, anyone can claim to be a gender and gain protections afforded that gender under Equality legislation.

The problem is, and we need to shout as loud as necessary to make it clear, that certain public spaces are not segregated by gender by sex, which is another protected characteristic (and, BTW, we need to be alert to any sniff of removing 'sex' from Equality legislation).

A male identifying as a woman is entering a public loo/rape crisis centre/etc and claiming protection based on gender. This is not the protected characteristic on which these spaces are segregated. If it is clear that sex segregation is different to gender segregation and that there are contexts where one, neither or both apply, we can start to unravel to problems.

I would challenge a male in a loo but not use the word gender/woman. I would assert that this space is segregated on sex for females. I don't see how the male can then claim access/discrimination.

We need to reject words like 'gender-neutral' for toilets/changing rooms as well.

And fight to remove the link between a GRC and the sex entry on a birth certificate.

Shouod I have disclosed that in order for my view to be considered? Genuine question

well, it certainly helps us to understand your points if you mention that you'll never understand ours.

Cat

Actually, it might have been helpful for you to disclose that, although it is of course your right not to.

As I said, I'm sorry you were assaulted.